Fully deserved

Good luck in the play offs lads- see you at wembley

no we deserved all 15

because we had 10 point deducted in the championship

15 points deducted in league 1

so that is 25 points deducted in 2 years

Your right but the 10 points in the championship was irrelevant as Leeds were already relegated.

Yes i totally agree Leeds should have not got any points from the tribunal!! I was having a bad day but seeing this has cheered me up no end ( nothing to do with our rivalry) honest

no- you cheated/exposed a loophole to get ten points deducted last year when you knew you were down already. Then you agreed to a points deduction to get your golden share back and enable you to play football this year, only to take the FL to court!
Have nothing against leeds as a club but your chairman should never be allowed near a football club again.
Maybe the FL will deduct points from you next season for having a conman as a chairman!

Rob- how do you have a rivalry with leeds as a derby fan- Your only rivals are us (forest) and AFC loughborough whos 109 year old record for lowest goals to game average you appear to be trying to break

lmao mike

Mike we have had a rivalry with Leeds for years.. As for the record with Loughborough, st least we will beat something this season :)

looks like youll beat a few rob

Well deserved.

Good... You cheat, you get punished, simple as, and therefore they didn't get their points back.

Edited at 20:09 Thu 1/05/08 (BST)

how did leeds cheat

u find the rule saying you cant go into administration the week b4 the season ends

your right

there isnt 1

Well I don't know the exact details of the whole thing, but Leeds must have done something wrong to get both point deductions(it's not as if they're going to deduct points for no reaosn), therefore why should they have their points given back?

basically when they didnt have enough points last season to stay in the CCC they went into administration so that they would incur the ten point deduction that season and not at the start of this one.

At the time there was no law that prevented them doing so and it was perfectly legal (if a little sneaky). This loophole is now closed and any team entering administration after a certain point of the season would incur the deduction the following season.

So they got ten points deducted in the CCC for going into administration.

During the summer Ken Bates almost killed the club and then formed a new company called leeds united 2007 or something like that. This company was given preferred bidder status by the admin

istrator. Bates offered 1p in the pound meaning every creditor would get 1% of what they were owed.
I.E owed £1000- get £10 back.

HMRC (the taxman) wasnt happy with this offer and took them to court. FL rules state to come out of administration a club must have a CVA. Leeds United were unable to obtain this due to HMRC's court action.
As a result of not having a CVA Leeds lost their Golden Share (each club must have a golden share to compete in the football league) and therefore couldnt compete in League One. They were facing extinction and the FL offered an olive branch of giving them their golden share with a 15 point reduction.

Leeds agreed to this and also agreed not to appeal this penalty.

Obviously they didnt keep their end of the bargain but thats all Mr Bates who decided it would be a great idea to take the FL to court.

Crazily, this could have effected the all english champions league final as UEFA and FIFA rules state that a club cannot take court

Edited at 22:16 Thu 1/05/08 (BST)

action against the FL/FA etc (again im not sure of the exact rule but you get the gist)
Had leeds won there would have been a possibility that english teams would be banned from europe!

If they had won the arbitration today then any teams affected by the change in leeds points (carlisle, forest, doncaster, southend) could have took the FL to court again.

Basically Ken Bates sold the club to himself to make money, offered a tiny sum to creditors and then once he had the golden share back bought more players than any other league one team! (dont quote me on that but they had a lot come in)
Ken Bates should not be allowed near a football team again!

Unfortuanetly this case has set a precedent. Bournemouth, Rotheram etc could all now be deducted 15 points if the FL continue don this line.

But it is widely believed they will not do it again and Leeds cannot understand why. Which is a fair point.

Leeds tried to get out of losing points by entering administration after

relegation which was technically fine.
The FL didnt like it and so leeds believe wanted to get "revenge" on them. They back this up by saying this will not happen to the other teams entering administration and not leaving with a CVA.

The rules state when leaving administration all football creditors must be paid 100% of what they are owed.
Anyone else (ie HMRC) can get whatever they accept. HMRC didnt like that and thats why this case went to court.
The case is now closed on leeds' points but im sure they are eagerly awaiting the exit of the bournemouths and rotherams of this world to see what happens.



Edited at 22:18 Thu 1/05/08 (BST)

Read the above
leeds didnt cheat- Ken Bates did

As a Leeds fan, this whole case as annoyed and upset me. I feel that on the whole, we have been treated unfairly, regardless of the situation. Yes, last season we took our penalty, which was, as madmiketyson has so eliquently put, completely legal. However, I feel that Ken Bates did what he had to do in order to keep the club alive. What a loss it would have been to the Football League if one of the greatest clubs were to cease to exist. (Especially when, in league one, we continue to pull attendences of 32,000 at best)

This may sound as though it is a typical thing for a Leeds fan to say, but I feel many other clubs wouldn't have suffered the same fate. Having said this, I personally felt that getting the points at this stage in the season would have been unfair on many teams above us. What I will say is, when we move up to the Championship, will the league try and handicap us anymore or can Leeds finally concentrate on football rather than legal wranglings?

A very balanced view from a leeds fan! well said- the only point i disagree with is that ken bates did what he had to to keep the club alive.

Ken bates did what he had to to make money- Had the creditors other than HMRC refused his penny in the pound offer somebody else would have come forward and bought the club with a better offer and avoided the whole scenario.

I mean he basically paid £500,000 for leeds united debt free! Dont you think there would have been plenty of people who would have been delighted to get the club for ten times that debt free! Yep.

Im a forest fan but have been closely watching the developments in this case- my personal view is that of our chairmans (we were one of only two or three clubs out of the 72 to vote against your deduction at the start of the season), the points should have stayed
At this point though it would be unfair to give them back
What i have wrote above is just my very basic understanding of the case and im happy to be proved wrong