Did he also mention that Everton scored a goal from a throw in which should not have been theirs? Oh and there was contact on the free kick which we scored off.

he might of, I didn't give a damn so I didn't listen

the whole suarez topic is so tiresome, couldn't you sign someone with a little less baggage?

Then to top it off Utd go on to beat 9 men of Chelsea thanks to a goal that was offside and a very dodgy second yellow. Seems to conveniently happen that stuff when they are in a must win game.

Just sums up where the two sides are in the scale of refereeing decisions.

Chelsea have complained to the FA about the language of Mark Clattenburg towards Chelsea players. Rumour is the comments are supposed to be racial too.

A must win game this early in the season?

They were 4 points off top, if Chelsea won they'd have gone 7 points clear and have been in decent form, so yeah pretty much.

Hardly. Man Utd were about 10 points off after Christmas last season. Then they turned it around to lead by about that amount with a few games to go. Then they ended up losing it. Definitely not a must-win!

Should be easy enough to check. Don't they record all the stuff the referees say? Maybe that was just for that "referees at work" documentary

Regardless of how many games into the season you are, history will tell you that in order to win the title, you at least have to share the points with United in your two games. If they do the double over you, you might as well forget it.

The title will be decided by a few points, and there was an unnatural 6 point slide yesterday. Chelsea were the better side. If the game went down to 10 v 10 like it should have, Chelsea certainly would not have lost. Even with 9 men United didn't create anything bar the goal with little pea a yard offside.

Yeah I think United had to win that game also.

Sir Alex said he can't be too far off City and Chelsea in January otherwise there might not be a way back.

If Chelsea win we go 7 clear of them, they are under the kosh and Chelsea have more wind in their sail.

I guess its the way it happens. Have been saying all of this season and last that Torres is for some reason targeted. Is he looked at as a cheat with lots of money or something? Referees give anything against him just for the fun of it but last night takes it to a whole new complete level.

To be kicked in the leg, regardless of how much contact (and lets face it there was equal contact with Ivanovic's red card) he goes down and gets a second yellow. Clattenburg before Torres even hits the floor has put his whistle in his mouth running with his hand in his pocket, he has anticipated Torres will dive for some reason and therefore it has clouded his judgement. I would say he should be investigated for this.

Mistakes are made, I know this. But it felt a little like the Chelsea v Barca game, where the ref had made predetermined decisions before the incidents occur. He was far to rash and if he has said anything to the Chelsea players he should also face court action and serve a suspension.

After conceding so early on in the fashion we did we devastating enough.

The game finished 13 v 9.

Great performance by us from 35-65 minute. By far the better team in every aspect.

Yeah, more decisions went in Man Utd's favor yesterday for sure.

In general though, I think referees face an impossible task nowadays. Players are constantly flopping around for no reason. It has simply turned into a guessing game whether they were actually hit or not. With our super slow motion cameras, we can see every nick and "contact". Is the contact always enough to make a player fall down? I don't think so (I'm talking in general, not about Torres).

------

About the "must-win" game- managers and pundits always call every big game a must win game. But to say that without this win Man Utd can't win the title is just silly. How many times does each season turn on its head? Teams get momentum and lose it all the time. True must-win games occur late, not with 28 games left to play lol. This was just another Chelsea vs Man Utd.

I've just come back from holiday and whilst out in Turkey met a load of English football fans. Majority of them were Liverpool fans with the rest being Newcastle and they were all saying that technology is a bad idea.

Even myself, who overall have been kicked in the teeth by numerous bad decisions, if you were to think of one team that has suffered due to bad decisions by refs then I would guess Chelsea are definitely up there.

God knows how many Champions Leagues, Premiership games, domestic cup games I can think of as well.

We don't need technology, it would ruin the whole excitement.

Do I find cricket entertaining? Rugby? Fussball? No. They don't have the passion thats involved with football, the heated debates the rivalry the trash talk in the paper.

We just need teams like Man United to not be favoured by officials. Nobody can say different, it looks as if Man United pay officials money, the whole thing on the lad bible about officials who had been demoted because they gave a controversial decision against United.

I remember Clattenburgs last game was City beating United 6-1 or whatever it was. He was then reported by Fergie and he got fined, suspended etc. First game back, sends off two players, Ivanovic I don't think he is trying to make contact but the Torres sending off is mental.

Chelsea launch a complaint and I bet nothing happens, but if this was the other way round and Fergie moaned - Demoted to League two like some of the others.

I don't buy that at all. Every time Man Utd gets a decision now, everyone says they're paying them.
How about this:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/9258810/Manchester-United-have-cause-for-complaint-as-unique-survey-highlights-Premier-League-errors.html

I read another one where they compared Liverpool vs Man Utd games over the last 20 years. Liverpool won more penalties at Old Trafford than Man Utd at Anfield. Man Utd got more yellow and red cards as well.

When decisions go against Man Utd, people just say "justice" and quickly forget that this happened. Then the whole thing repeats itself. Everyone gets good and bad decisions.

Turns out Suarez was offside...

Saw this and it made me laugh

LMFAO

Yet again the English officials have let everyone down.

Thats two games running that Arsenal have won under dodgey circumstances. 96th minute goal equalising the score to 4-4 after only 4 minutes of stoppage time were indicated.

This comes after they scored a goal late on against QPR which was offside.

This comes about at a time when Chelsea striker Torres was sent off for suspected diving after replays clearly show the Spaniard was tackled in the shin below the knee & then later on the game would be decided by what appeared to be an obvious offside goal by Hernandez where the little Mexican ran from behind the goal and even Petr Cech, to score a controversial winner.

Earlier on Everton were deemed lucky to get a draw against their arch rivals Liverpool as Suarez scored a late goal only to be disallowed for offside, but the linesman got this one wrong when the replay showed highly criticised Liverpool forward Suarez was in fact onside.

The speculation of the Merseyside derby is that Suarez appeared to malicious stamp on the ankle of Everton defender Distin prior to this which in this error of fragile tackles should have most probably warranted a straight red card and in the set piece the disallowed goal was struck from saw Gerrard go down in what some would say "soft" fashion.

So the question is, do we need technology in football?

Do we need technology in this sport? A sport where the excitement is through the unexpected results?

Do we need better officials?

Do we punish diving after the game?

Do we enable the FA to revoke goals, cards, decisions after the game?

Or do we just accept that some teams like Arsenal & Manchester United will be favoured by officials who made predetermined decisions based on what they think is only the inevitable ?


I can honestly say that if I was an official & I was refereeing against a team that a fan of had sent me death threats, shouted abuse etc then my judgement would be clouded by awarding soft penalties, calling for fouls when an attacker even looks at the goalkeeper in a 50/50 challenge, or if a manager had got my colleges demoted to league 2.

& In these cases over the years, people like Jose Mourinho has openly spoke about officials with Madrid v Barca games and in the last few games Madrid should have had players sent off, but because of comments made in public they havent been.

Sir Alex having 4 members of officials demoted, 1 taken early retirement, 1 not refereeing a United game for 9 months and formerly Clattenberg for 6 months.

Arsene Wenger complaining about players being too aggressive & bad decisions.

And so on...

So how does this situation get resolved?

Need better officials?

Definitely so, and I reckon if you are employed to do a job you should do it to your full potential be it working at McDonalds or refereeing a football game.

Punish diving after the game?

Yes, I would welcome this as should all football fans, however if it leads to a penalty/free kick then those decisions can't be overturned.

Do we enable the FA to revoke goals, cards, decisions after the game?

Revoke goals no, but cards, other decisions whether the ref sees them or not then yes definitely, this would stamp out what many believe to be bias decisions.

And if it is the same ref over and over again then he needs looking at obviously. Some decisions will be made some times but it is happening all too often now.

In every Premier League game (and many of the lower leagues), observers are sitting in the stands watching and evaluating the referee.
Remember that these are all split-second decisions and not obvious at all if you don't have the luxury of looking at super slow-motion cameras from 5 different angles. Look at the Torres "dive" for example- you have to slow it down to sloooooooooow motion to see that contact may have been made. How is a referee supposed to see that? Referees make decisions in that instant to the best of their abilities.
It has been well-documented that perceived favoritism towards (for example) Man Utd is simply false. Statistics do not support it.

Better refs? lol
If anyone follows the NFL, you will know that all referees went on strike going into the season. The first few weeks of the NFL season were refereed by amateur/college referees. This showed the fans how good the referees really are!! When they ended their strike and came back, they received standing ovations before the game because the fans (the same ones who had previously slated them for years) were so glad they were back.

Wrong decisions happen. We don't need technology, we just need to quit whining about them. Same as flukes in snooker and bad beats in poker. They happen to everyone.

I think the key points you make there Seb, regarding the Torres situation - "How is the referee suppose to see that?".

This is exactly the point and the issue.

The referee cannot see the incident? So why has he pulled out a second yellow card for Fernando Torres reducing Chelsea to nine men? If he cannot see the contact he has to be 100% sure that Torres is diving.

Now to me this is where predetermined outcomes come into play. The Ref has placed whistle in mouth before Torres has made contact with the floor, he had a 'feeling' Torres might go down easy, or he said in his mind "Torres better not dive here or I'm doing him". Then he sees Torres' reaction when he realises he is being sent off, thats when it must of hit him.

But referees get a lot of stick, I get lots of stick at my job due to working with customers for gas connections, but its part of my job and I accept it, so if I'm getting paid probably much less than they are - But the stick I receive makes me actions things differently. If I have a customer who is going to nag, pester and publicly criticise me then its going to affect my decisions.

These games are too high profile for a CLEARLY agitated and frustrated Clattenburg who may have even resorted to racial and inappropriate language. So the officials are the people to blame.

Theres also a possibility that the linesmen though United scoring was inevitable, was expecting them so assumed it was onside.