I must admit to finding the situation at the moment hilarious.

All this media hype around finsihing 4th in the league, and now it might be that 4th gets you Europa League. If Chelsea win against Bayern then the 4th place team might as well have won the fair play league.

Maybe then people will see it for what it is. 4th. Not first, not a trophy, but 4th, one place worse off than 3rd, one place better off than 5th.

Edited at 16:49 Thu 26/04/12 (BST)

I'd much rather finish 4th than 5th tho, wouldn't you?

Fair play to Chelsea what a result and comeback it was, awesome goal by Ramieres. If they can do that against Barca at the Nou Camp with 10 men, then they are certainly more than capable of beating Bayern Munich, even with them players out.

I'd much rather finish 12th than 13th. I wouldn't sacrafice a trophy for it though.

Look at Spurs getting themselves kicked out of the Europa League. Why did they do that? To finish in the top 4.

Madness. With that mentality and that way of managing a club it is little wonder Spurs haven't won anything in God knows how long and 'Arry has won 1 FA Cup in his 30odd years of management.

The media brand them a success, they are not. They have spent very big on finishing 4th 5th and 4th/5th/6th in 3 seasons.

It isn't good they have nothing, they haven't looked like winning anything, but because they challenge the top 4 'Arry is Englands number 1 candidate.

Not a chance, England should be going abroad and looking for a winner.

Edited at 18:32 Thu 26/04/12 (BST)

Capello was a winner.....
It's England that's the problem, not the managers.

+1 ^^^^^^^^^^^^

Capello was an idiot.

Mourinho is a winner... Mourinho is moving to England... But who will get the special one?

A young attractive Spurs team? A team Mourinho would mould to make history with...

A rich, talented Man City? A team he would love to head to head United against. Another team with no history that attracts Mourinho.

Is Fergie giving up his throne? Will Mourinho be inspired, and the only possible candidate to date that is remotely capable of replacing Sir Alex. Mourinho isn't scared of taking the role.

Will he return home to the bridge and redeem Chelsea to its solidity? Abramovich has no hard feelings and Jose seems very fond of Chelsea still.

Or will he infact go for complete glory and take over a pathetic, useless, rubbish bunch of greedy English players. Will he put his career, reputation on the line to boost himself beyond the greatest managers to exist. Surely if Mourinho achieves anything with England, then he will no doubt be the greatest manager to ever exist.

Or will he stay with Madrid haha.

Exciting

Yeah about 4th spot ha... all this hype all season... Spurs, Newcastle or Arsenal could actually be denied by Chelsea winning the Champions league! That would be a pretty big blow to either of those teams. Especially Newcastle if they manage to beat City and Chelsea then we beat Bayern.

If 80% of England wanted Barca to beat us, I wonder how many want Munich to...

@2good

I love how as soon as Liverpool start doing bad in the league, they seem to make out like it was their plan all along and that they're only in it for the trophies. Not just talking about you by the way, that's directed at 90% of Liverpool fans. Of course Liverpool care about their league position.. Any club that denies that fact is clearly lying, and if (or when), you don't win the FA Cup, your season will go from bad to worse..
I mean really, would a Carling Cup win make up for finishing 12/13th or where ever??

Trophies are good yes, but to act like finishing anywhere but 1st in the premier league is bad and shouldn't be celebrated is just stupid.

^ No. Celebrating finishing 4th is stupid. First is first second is nowhere. Just think how bad 8th is! :\

Celebrating 4th is a strange concept that doesn't seem to apply in any other sport or anything else in the world in fact.

Yeah! 4th best employee of the month. Woop.

Yeah 4th best funky snooker play of all time! GTF In!

Yeah 4th best super market in the UK! get in Morrisons!

Yes, 4th highest grade in class! Stick it up ya 5th!

Yes 4th at the olympics! Oh! :(

---

Bilbao! What an amazing side, Marcelo Bielsa is an absolute hero! With the news that Josep is about to take a sabbatical from football, he surely has to be applicant number 1 for the Barca job? His side play in a similar way, press the ball high up, but are a bit more direct (and more exciting) to watch. Plus the guy is an absolute lunatic. Pacing back and too all game snarling at everything and everyone. Some of the stories about him as well are brilliant.

He has already showed Fergie up twice this season, the guy plays the best football I've seen in... ever. His team is made up of 100% Basque players and his team just score goals for fun.

Hope they hammer Atletico Madrid. Loved Llorentes reaction at the end too. The guy has won a World Cup yet he sank to his knees in jubilation at qualifying for the Europa League final. What a winner. English clubs take note! The rest of Europe takes this very seriously.

They are in the Copa Del Rey final too against Barca. Come on Bilbao!

Ahh but they are 6th in the league. Must be crap then. If only they were 2 places higher they'd have achieved success.

Celebrating 4th isn't stupid at all. You're just being idiotic now.. There are a lot of opportunities available for clubs that finish 4th, whether you agree or not...

Look at Newcastle for example.. If we finish 4th this season, it'll be an absolutely outstanding achievement for our football club, nobody can deny that... We'd (probably), get CL football, giving our club the chance to play along side the best teams in the world, with worldwide publicity, more money, and the chance to bring in some better talent.. So in our case, there is a huge difference between finishing 5th, and finishing 4th. However, both would be fantastic, even if we have an awful last 4 games and finish 6th I'd still be over the moon with getting Europa.

If you weren't doing so bad in the league this season, and you were in the fight for 4th, I'd bet that you wouldn't have the same views as you do now. You'd be hoping for the very best, because if you know that 1st place is out of reach, you want to get as much as you can out of a whole seasons worth of work. Liverpool aren't all about the trophies, they're just saying that because they're embarrassed at the current state of their football club. You struggled to beat Cardiff in the Carling Cup, so I very much doubt you'll get anything out of Chelsea in the FA Cup. Which brings me back to my previous question...

Would a Carling Cup win make up for finishing 12/13th or where ever?

4th far from guarantees anything. Even if Chelsea lose to Bayern and you finish 4th, you will have to play a tough qualifier like Malaga.

It's difficult for new teams who finish 4th because you are given no seeding.

You'd be quite likely to face the 3rd/4th place team of Spain/Italy/France/Germany.

If you got made of money Malaga for instance you're struggling.

We struggled to beat teams like Standard Liege and Maccabi Haifa when we finished 4th. Arsenal last season were given Udinese. The season before that, Celtic. Everton were given Villareal. CL football for 4th place is by no means guaranteed.

Sometimes it is detrimental tbh. Good players come over for a lot of money on big wages, only to be kicked out at the qualifying stage. All of a sudden you have players on huge wages unhappy with playing Legia Warsaw in the Europa League rather than Real Madrid in the Champions League.

Of course I'd rather we were 4th than 8th, and our league season has been a nightmare. 28 times (i think) we have hit the woodwork this season. It's really frustrating being amongst teams who create half of what we do!

Liverpool have always existed to win trophies though. That has been the remit for Liverpool since 1892, not just 2012 now that we can't buy a win in the league. The invention of the top 4 hasn't changed that. I've said for ages trophies > top 4. Now Chelsea could kick out the 4th team i'm definitely on that side of the fence! Bayern are not great!

Edited at 03:41 Fri 27/04/12 (BST)

Tbh Mike, you no full well you're talking rubbish

If by achieving 4th, you usually get Champions league. So its not yippy 1 place above 5th! Booooyaaa. Its £50million... a place in the Champions League, a chance to shine.

Using your -

Yes, 4th highest grade in class! Stick it up ya 5th!

In this case, the top 4 got taken to the Nou Camp to play... 5th gets to play Shamrock Rovers.

Thats the big difference, which you are fully aware of! You're so stubborn sometimes Mike

Also the whole 19 league thing with United? Thats been a pretty hot topic. You will never catch them if you finish 8th!

Not really, it isn't me getting the £50M at the end of the day. Just because UEFA have decided to reward teams for losing doesn't mean it's an achievement. Maybe it is for Newcastle, I don't know.

I've been following Warrington all my life in the rugger and we finished second bottom every year, then one season we finished 6th and just made the play offs. It didn't make finishing 6th any good. It was good for us, but it doesn't compare to when we won the Challenge Cup and finished 10th or last season when we topped the league table only to lose to 5th place Leeds in the Play Offs.

We're not going to be catching Utd finishing 8th, 4th or 2nd or last. Anyway, Utd may have won the league more times than Liverpool, but in the premier league we're hammering them on finishing in 4th place, so swings and roundabouts?

Edited at 17:04 Fri 27/04/12 (BST)

Tbh you are defeating yourself and your whole principal.

If your motto is all about winning throphies... 8th position and slipping doesnt get you entry into tournaments where you can actually win them.

By not qualifying for Europe you attract little players, which then means you wont be able to challange for the domestic throphies.

Maybe you dont like to admit it but finishing in a champions league spot is an achievment. So too is finishing 5th, 8th or 17th. They are just different level of achievments but surely you would strive for the best achievement, which is a champions league spot.

Sir Alex says he doesnt aim to win the league at the start of the season. Or in the middle. He just aims to be in contention. And then they push on. Atm Liverpool arent in contention league wise, which is bread and butter.

Chelsea haven't had a great season. Very much similar to Liverpool. Both teams arent in the top 4, however both teams have reached two finals. I would say Chelsea have done better already, yet we haven't won a throphy. But for me, coming 2nd in the CL is a big achievement. I would have taken second spot all day long. For us to just have a shot at winning it, makes me/us a winner this season. So I understand you there.

But I have AVB, Torres, Terry racism case and the African cup of nations to use as excuses...

You just claim Liverpool have had a great season? Suarez ban is the only thing thats happened, and your 8th in the league?

It's not defeating anything. We've already qualified for Europe through winning the cup. We are automatically given places in the League Cup and FA Cup and we will start again on 0 in the league. Win all that lot and your laughing.

When we won our first 4 European Cups we gained the right by winning the league. If you finished second you could have a go at the UEFA Cup as a reward for effort.

If UEFA decided to give England 8 CL places would we now be having a successful league campaign?

It is a good competition the CL but the money of it all is ruining the domestic game. The FA Cup and the League Cup now seen as distractions from that all important 4th spot, and if you finish 5th, absolute nightmare apparently cos there isn't enough prestige in winning the Europa League for clubs like Spurs who'd rather lose in the group stage to Milan no doubt.

Meanwhile the cobwebs are growing ever thicker in that trophy cabinet of Spurs/Arsenal/Newcastle and one of the Manchester clubs are about to win nothing too.

Managers, fans and players seem to think that trophies are distractions from finishing 4th and the Champions League. All I'm arguing is that Champions League is a distraction from winning trophies. Teams seem caught up in a vicious circle of finishing 4th and winning nothing or winning something and finishing outside.

I know the benefits of CL qualification but they are only worthwhile at the end of it all if you have something to show for it.

Edited at 17:59 Fri 27/04/12 (BST)

Having said all that 4th for Newcastle is progress, forgetting the fact that they might now get in the Champions League, they have improved year on year in the league since they were promoted 2 seasons ago.

Do they have the belief to think they can push for a title challenge like they did under Keegan?

how can no1 not want to buy that? pleeeeease some1 buy us soon!

Edited at 20:35 Fri 27/04/12 (BST)

Anybody watching the Newcastle vs Barcelona match?? We're down 4-0 at half time.

Just saw that, wow a Newcastle team in form who have been fantastic all season and now this...

Also Swansea 4-2 Wolves after 33 mins

looks like a great night to watch MOTD!