Actually, my memory is prettty good and if im right that German team that they played in the final were poor.. not just the final all the way through, scraped most of their games and had problems all over the pitch as it was Joegy Louuuwws first tournament im sure he hadnt got a clue tbh.. But still done well considering, which is why they get refered to as a "machine" so many times..
This time round hes hit the nail on the head though, quality is what the German team is..

I dont like this.

Torres, Del Bosque, Liverpool Physios have all declared Torres match fit. Fit to play 90 minutes too.

So this "he is tired, unfit" card doesnt play for me. Like when Capello said England were tired, when Germany play more games altho I believe the mental strain England face (mainly bcoz the prem is so challanging and the expectation) may be more draining.

But if hes fit then hes fit.

I see Torres play and I love football and play it so I can see there is something wrong with Torres Mike, I just dont think its his fitness. You say the player only thinks about the game when hes on the pitch, but like you say, Torres wants to be involved yet he isnt being involved. That to me would frustrate me, affecting my game as I may have to come short for the ball, go wide, come deep and I may also try so hard, its too hard.

We all know what Torres is capable of, but it doesnt have much to do with fitness, I am unfit but I can score goals even tho im lazy. I know compairing me to Torres is silly but if I can manage it, then surely he can. I just get the impresion that Torres doesnt feel needed, because he isnt needed. Whereas for Liverpool/Ath Madrid he was crucial but in the Spain squad, could argue making the numbers. He has been a negative for them so far and been better without him.

But Del Bosque said "He is fit, he will start" which is what he's said all along

Also Torres is better when the game is stretched, when he is chasing balls played over the top when the defense is pushing up. In the world cup teams have like 2 holding midfield players with a solid back four so its not like playing Bolton.

Meh, hard to explain but I dont think Torres should be defended or be excused for this apparent lack of fitness.

A poor German side? There has never been such thing. Especially to get to a final, they were the second best side in the tournament. By definition.

Torres isn't tired, he is unfit, not unfit as in overweight, but lacking match sharpness. Of course it is compounded when goes game after game without scoring, it will all change IF he gets a goal. He will look a different player, same goes for all strikers.

But I'm telling you, his problem is his movement, he is always like this when coming back from injury, the difference is this is a more serious injury, and obv. not his usual surroundings

Edited at 02:28 Tue 06/07/10 (BST)

So guys -

Holland v Uruaguay
Spain v Germany

What do we reckon the scores are going to be?

I've just backed £30 on 2-0 Holland @ 6/1
And for the other game I think ima bet on a score draw, 1-1/2-2 sort of thing.

By definition! not in reality.

they had a decent team but did not perform well in that tournament. The reason the got to the final was because they are like a "machine". Look up game summaries from the euros and read Germanys.

Holland 2 - 1 Uruguay

Spain 0 - 1 Germany ( maybe... tough one to call IMO )

holland i agree 2-1 , maybe more as holland want there 1st world cup

Uruguay are without Suarez so that could maybe be a bit of a blow for them

Holland v Uruguay hmmm i think Holland will definitely go through and Germany v Spain Tough call lol think Germany will go through

crackeeeeeerrrrrrrrrr of a goal

OMFG

Yeah that was a beauty! haha

has somebody sco-.....!!! OMG!!!

holland germany final IMO

Hahahaha see that face kick???

brilliant goal it was....

yes james that must of hurt!!!

ah first goal was 2 good. uruguay got a goal. forlan on fire

1-1 half time... interesting

Looks like Holland are through then!

yep 3-1 holland are pretty much there now