I never said anything otherwise about Dzeko, I said besides Dzeko most those players wouldn't walk into any team.

Yeah Paisley did win more European Cups.
But If you pick 9 years from Fergie's time i reckon you'd find he won more trophies in those 9 than paisley did in his 9.

A Campaign has begun in the House of Lords to make Sir Alex Ferguson a lord. Here is the motion in full....

"That this House recognises the economic, social, cultural and sporting importance of football to the United Kingdom; is therefore surprised at the paucity of representatives from the world of football in the Upper House; further notes that Sir Alex Ferguson, as the manager of Aberdeen and Manchester United, is the most successful manager in the history of British football; and calls for him to be recommended for appointment to the House of Lords."


And Kop - Calling Torres a ladyboy awww fickle fan forgetting his time at your club. No wonder he was quoted in saying ""But, as I said before, I can say I'm a Chelsea player now. I'm really happy and I'm sure I am doing one big step forward in my career joining a club like Chelsea. "

First off, I disagree with knighthoods and becoming a Lord all because of football, no one is doubting he is a brilliant manager, but I would rather see people who do REAL jobs such as, brain surgeons, soldiers, police etc all be honoured before someone for winning trophies in football. It is true though a few pages back I agreed with KK being knighted, but not because of his football work more to do with his charity work and other work within the community.

As for Torres... I must be one of the only Liverpool fans who was not too bothered about the departure or the way he went about it, at the end of the day you could see he didn't want to be there so why keep him. I wish him luck and always have done, and I thank him for what an amazing job he done at Liverpool. The one thing that angered me was he was quoted somewhere as wanting to go to Chelsea because they have a great history (amongst other things). Now I know this was could have been misinterpreted by the journalist and not to listen to a lot they say, take it with a pinch of salt blah blah... but surely the clubs with the best history in England are United Liverpool Everton and Forest ... And Chelsea's history was pretty poor before they bought the league, as I said I wish him well at Chelsea and honestly hope he does good, just not against us. I also believe it was a good career choice he made, we were going no where and wont be for another season or 2 at least so for him, yeah it was a good move.

Thats right, untill last season or the year before Sunderland had the same amount of English Top division titles as Chelsea!

arsenal has a cracking history too

is this thread stil going

I don't think I argued against him being the most succesful, because he is. The same way Liverpool are the most succesful team in England.

I said he wasn't the best, that Paisley was, followed by Sir Matt and Shanks.

As for Torres, I have no bitterness of him leaving, hence I said his class will show. To be honest we got the better end of the deal, my bitterness stems from the way he left, which was a bit small time.

He is still a ladyboy though, and hope he proves the rule; No player leaves Liverpool and betters their career.

Torres also said this by the way;

Speaking to radio station Cadena Ser, the 26 year old striker said: "Liverpool will always be very special to me. Because of its history, Liverpool is the bigger club but it's going through a difficult time."

Your entitled to your Paisley is #1, Sir Matt #2 and Shanks #3, clearly wrong as Fergies better than all 3 but whatever

Sure Liverpool got a good deal, 50 million for 1 player is always going to be a good deal and bitterness the way he left? You mean because he wanted to join a team capable of winning trophys now rather than in Years time?

As for your frankly ridiculous statement about No Liverpool players bettering their career

Mascharano - Won La Liga and Champions League
Michael Owen won the League with Man Utd
Steve McManaman winning La Liga twice and Champions League twice

Think your wrong there

On Torres, I mean for saying he would never joining Chelsea, then joining Chelsea.

And come on fella. Masch and Owen both sat on their backsides winning off others hard work (especially the latter)

He even had to produce a brochure to sell himself (hes clean shaven you know? *cinge*) shame for Owen could have been great, even won the Ballon Dor the lad, now settling for a place on a bench (and dabble on the horses)

Most players would rather play than sit at title winning sides, Masch has to somehow remove Busquets and thats a toughie atm.

I will give you macka though, I don't remember much of his time at Madrid but he played a key role in their European Cup win.

Finally football is about opinions, you can say Fergie is the most succesful manager and be correct, but you cannot say 100% he was the best, because that is measured in other less simplistic ways.

Such as Shankly taking an unfashionable Liverpool side out of Division 2 to dominate English football, or Matt Busby taking a side that had been torn apart by the munich air disater and turning them in to title winners. He didn't have Fergie millions to do it either, he used veterans and rejects..

Without Sir Matt, they could never have been a Sir Alex, at least not at United.

Without a Sir Matt, there could no longer have been a Manchester United.

Doesnt really matter how many games was played, they Bettered themselves with the honours they acheieved and just to let you know that Mascherano played 27 of the 38 League games reguardless if some of those were off the bench.

You are forgetting that fergie took scottish Aberdeen to The League title 3 times beating Rangers AND Celtic.And stop with your talk about Fergie spending Millions when he didnt. Did you forget that Paisley signed Hanson, signed Lawro? Should I say the same to you that the only reason Paisley won anything was because he spent money? No. And how much money to Fergie spend on Beckham, Neville, Scholes, Giggs and co hmm?

Let
It
Go

Edited at 02:10 Sat 18/06/11 (BST)

Well for most players it does matter, for Owen it doesn't. He said he'd rather sit on Utds bench than start for a poor team, which is a bad attitude to take to be honest.

But no he hasn't bettered his career. No sets of fans love him, he is hated by Liverpool and Newcastle fans, Real MArid fans and United fans couldn't care a damn about him. He ruined what he had, he knew he shouldn't have left Liverpool, he missed out on his chance of winning the Champions League. The season after wanted a return but we weren't prepared to pay double what we received from Madrid and Newcastle were. Huge mistake from them.

Shame, he was my favourite player groing up, sad to see him now being 4th choice striker at Utd.

By naming 3 players though, none of which are remembered/cared about by them clubs you prove my point.

I am not forgetting what Fergie did with Aberdeen at all (though you clearly did *cough Uefa Cup *cough*. You deny Fergie spent millions? Well of course he has. 100s upon 100s of Millions mate. To say otherwise makes you look silly to be honest.

Why lie?

Yeah, but thats only because hes been there so long, you cant really be a manager at a top top club for 25 years and not have acumulated a big amount of spenditure...

He hasn't done a city or a chelsea or blackburn, hes rebuilt the team, not bought a whole new team, I'm glad its not just me though who is sickened by the sadness of teams buying a league, its just not ethical if you have to buy everything so that others can't so you can win a league..

If Torres wins the prem at Chelsea, does this mean he has bettered his career?

I would also point out, you don't really have outstanding individuals. You have team players that are hard working. Your players I don't actually think in the past 5-10 years could of got into a better side as no1 would want them. Gerrard and Torres were the exceptions, one came to Chelsea and the other was about to sign until the "great" liverpool fans threaterned to hurt his family HA! Wasn't confirmed of course but we all know its true.

Liverpool with their squad have over achieved in Europe, Luis Garcia and players of that caliber. How can a player of that ability who over achieves at yes, a big club then go on to better it?

The Masch' thing, he was in the champions league and is again... Just like Torres is. He has won the proper double and achieved domestic success at barca, something he would never of done with Lpool. He has bettered his career, he might not play every game but he has contributed and played a lot more than Gerrard this season.

As for this thread.... I still cant believe United fans thought they could win :L its hilarious! United could of fielded their entire champions league squad and had a goal head start and lost.

Indeed, no shame in spending money that is availiable. Just thought it was another Woody classic line that needed picking up on.

Teams buying leagues will never feel the full satisfaction or be given complete credit (or even any) when they ffinally win the league.

Blackburn under Kenny got very little, Chelsea under Jose got some. If City win it, they will get none, because they have took spending to a whole new level.

I would say the premier league is one of the most unequal leagues in the world, and is split into the "haves" the "have nots", and the "spend what we don't haves".

At the moment, United are spending money that doesn't belong to them and sooner or later that money will have to be paid back in full, as well as the crippling interest every month.

I hate this thing about money. Let me bust some facts.

Man Utd have spent LOADS more than Chelsea.

Man Utd have the top 5 teenage transfer bills.

Chelsea invested a lot of money, agreed. But in comparison to how much other teams were spending like United when they done it... Its exactly the same. Due to inflation costs have gone up, Utd signed players for 10 million back then, which is 30 million now. And despite Chelsea wasting hundreds of millions on flops, we still haven't spent nowhere near as much as manchester united.

So let me ask this... Arsenal spent money once upon a time and guess what happened? They were unstoppable. If they were to do something crazy and spend money again and win, is that buying the league?

How about if United spend 15 on nani, 16 on anderson, 30 on wayne, 30 on berba, 30 on rio, 13 on ronaldo, carrick, vidic, VDS in pretty much 2 seasons, how isn't that considered the same as chelsea!! Lmao its crazy how this is overlooked?

Arsenal getting, Pires, Henry, Ljumberg, Kanu, Bergkamp, Viera, Jeffers, Inamoto, Wiltord in what, space of 2 seasons, is that not buying the league?

I guess Barca bought everything this year, if not then... Guardiola won it without spending, he must be the gratest manager to live? Orrrr, they had ALREADY spent the money and had a sick team?

Football = Money.

City and madrid spent... They both won the FA cup. Success or failure?

Fans hate Chelsea and now City because of money. Its jealousy, that's all it is.

I never phoned up Roman Abram' or joined a chairman dating site. I was just a regular guy who enjoyed beating United 4-0 then losing to leicster at home. We were a team who had just had their best season getting 4th spot. I loved Zola, Di Matteo, Vialli, Lebouf, Guillit, Flo, Poyet, Desaiily, Deschamps... I loved Chelsea. There are many other Chelsea and City fans the same as me. For us fans to be slated for Chelsea getting bought out, and for this jealous hatred and abuse we get for spending money (which ALL other clubs do and have done) is just unfair and insane. There was a time when fans actually liked Chelsea and would say "I hope they do alright this year" But those days seem like forever ago.

I thought I'd understand all this hate because I could witness first hand off City taking it to a level beyond competition but, its fine. I won't lose sleep or hurl abuse at the true City fans.

Sorry Liverpool, Sorry United.. You just don't have more money than everyone now lol.

Saying that, 20m Henderson and 20m Jones. They are both just as outragous as 50m for Nando.

This discussion sounds like one giant advert for the Bundesliga.

Indeed. The fairest league about at the moment. A model England should follow.

I don't think anybody is particularly jealous of City/Chelsea to be honest Derry.

I think fans think there are other ways to go about things, such as youth development and good marketing strategy - IE running a football club that is self sustainable, and oly spending the profit that club makes.

That is how it should be anyway (IMO) If your club makes no money tough. A sheikh or a dodgy russian shouldn't make up for poor business strategy.

I'm liking our owners atm. They have said quite clearly Liverpool will be largely debt free, and only spend what the club makes, at the end of it all hopefully we will be back challenging for things, and the Americans will sell to the fans at a nice profit.

That is how a business should be run, rather than chasing short term glory.

Edited at 14:26 Sat 18/06/11 (BST)

Ahh but Dez babe, Nani, Anderson, Vidic, Carrick, Rooney, Ronaldo, Rio they all played for united long before VDS, i think Rio's been around with us since 03-04? around that anyway so it wasnt really two seasons, and nani and anderson were the only two bought in the same season, the rest came in a different season.