lol I only posted earlier because I didn't have time to think about it (again as it turns out!).
The same problem still exists for me. I think the different timing of the teamsheets would be manageable- I would just have to start a few days earlier.

The subs thing is a practical problem that can't really be solved. The system would just depend on captains being honest enough to send in realistic lineups.

I guess, but from the way I view it, the potential sub problems would be no different to how they are now

Would obviously depend on the support though, but I think it's doable and more effective

I think it might work here, because I don't see any idiot captains who try to abuse the system. Not possible on pool, but we could potentially try it here. I'll leave that up to everyone though.

It's not THAT big of an advantage anyway.

Well after TD fold anyway - And nah, well we are much more civilised over here

I don't know... I can see the Allstarz captain subbing himself into carom if he sees an opponent he can beat .

That guy is just a blatant cheat though

Since we are seeing potential rumors of folding clans, this might be a good time to bring up a discussion that has been held a few times in the past-
should we make clans smaller to get more clans involved? (I'm thinking roughly 6 games per fixture with 4 on the bench, making it 10 players maximum.)

I'm torn because I can see arguments for both sides:

positive changes:
- More clans = more fun.
- More clans = more variety with formats, both in the league and the cup.
- More clans = more competition.

negative aspects:
- More clans with fewer players means a higher likelihood that clans may fold.
- There will be more turnover between seasons, with lots of clans folding and lots created. No continuity.
- The competition format will be changed, which means the league could run a bit rougher in the first season or two as rules get smoothed out to fit the new circumstances.

One argument in the past was that there aren't enough available reliable captains or potential captains. I can think of a whole bunch at the moment: myself, davey, adam, tyler (we'll see ), pirate, msl, richie, sarahh, ang, linny, horse, matty.
All of those could run a clan without problems if they wanted to, so that argument doesn't hold for me.

I'm not for or against this at the moment, but I do see that we simply can't get more than 6 big clans (with current format) going. If people are happy with the way it is, I'm happy to continue as we are as well!

Surely you put the wrong name down here(one in bold that is)

would it be possible to make clans smaller but keep the same number of games but players can be played twice. In the Tuesday night league I play in there is 12 games and each player is aloud to play twice. maximum of 10 players per clan but atleast 6.

I'm on phone so not really able to dicuss mush more as it take ages to write but will look ibto it more tommoro.

I do see the benefits of smaller clans, but I personally dont see why more of the active players on the site dont put in the effort to start new clans. We started our clan from scratch at the beginning of this season and we have managed to keep going - it takes time to develop a reliable and competitive team but if you put the effort in we can get more clans going.
If however this isnt going to happen...then yeah I think smaller clans could work

Very good point to be raised....

It's a shame to see a couple of clans folding at the end of the season, it seems to be more of a two in, two out system with the numbers staying fairly constant.

I really don't think you can decrease the numbers in each clan, that would be suicidal. I have several players who can't stay active for a whole season (understandably with work and other commitments). If the numbers were restricted, I'd have to get rid of these players and purely keep the consistently active ones which isn't good for the health of the league.

What I would like to see is the limit increased to 20 and for the competitions to be restructured so that they better reflect the amount of players in each clan and the popularity of each game type. I don't understand why each fixture has the same amount of Arcade and Original games as Carom and Regular when the latter are far less popular!

Regardless of what happens, I think more emphasis needs to be put on bringing new players into clans and restrict the amount that clans can 'poach'. You could say that I have had it easy as when I took over Allstarz I already had a reliable core group of players - But since I took over out of the 9 players that I've brought in, 6 have been new players. Not all of these have worked out, but I really think there needs to be some kind of rule over who clans can bring in. The players are definitely out there!

^Added to that^

Why smaller clans?

I've been working fairly consistently over the course of the season to make sure that for the start of next season Allstarz have 16 reliable, nice players. I've approached a heck of a lot of players, and have referred several players to other clans and spoken to a few other captains about players who I couldn't take on but were interested.

What am I supposed to do if numbers get limited?

The players are definitely out there, it's just that captains turn them away because they want to retain a certain degree of quality in their team.

You have to decide whether you want a small group of clans filled with the top players, or a healthier league filled with more players of varying quality

Yeah I agree mate, getting new players involved in clans is what will increase the number of clans. When looking for players for my clan I found that alot of people dont even know about clans (I didnt untill this year), so just by playing and asking players if they are interested, you can get new people in

pirate- if clans were decreased in size, we would of course not be sticking with the same game format. We would have to restructure so that two or 3 simultaneous deactivations can't fold a clan.
That would mean either fewer games in a fixture (but more fixtures since there are more clans) or something similar to what davey has suggested.

The idea is to create more competition by having more than just the max 6 clans we're getting now.

I'm not sure that players are being rejected because of their skill level. New (crappy) clans would've popped up by now to give them a spot. There are simply not as many interested players here it seems.

I personally have always agreed with the reduction of teams to 10 players ish..

I also like the idea of playing twice in a single fixture, which Davey suggested.

Even better would be a league of 10 or more teams..maybe even with A and B teams from the same clan ,(assuming there is control of who is in which team)
.Maybe even 2 leagues of 6 one day with relegation and promotion.

Pie in the sky maybe?


6 teams is rather boring to be honest , as is not playing in fixtures to allow for all 16 players to play.

It certainly needs something right now to create or sustain interest.

It seems there is a general lack of interest right now in funky all round or is it just how it appears to me.


Edited at 22:49 Mon 24/06/13 (BST)

I think we are talking about slightly different things here, but anyway

I understand that, but as msl said, the players are definitely out there. Without meaning to sound defamatory, maybe yourself and others haven't come across these players because with the clans such as D&C, you're only looking for the established or up and coming 'active' players?

You would technically get more competition by decreasing the size of clans, but any 'increase' in competition is going to be fabricated as it will still be the same old players, just playing under a new name.

Clans like Total Domination and Anger Management could easily survive if they were willing to take on 'worse' players.

A & B teams would definitely be something I'd agree with, if we came up with a fair way of managing them

I'm slightly against A and B teams, because we've had that experiment in the past and it failed miserably with both clans folding lol.

Yes, we do only take players who pot the ball well. But what I'm saying is that if there were lots of eager and willing players out there, we would already have more clans than we do now. We've been stuck on 6 clans for many seasons now. But yes, Anger and TD could easily survive, as could FSE before and a few others.

Ah right :/

Definitely need to increase the competition, which would involve restructuring the formats so that they make more sense with respect to the popularities and size of the clans

After thinking about it, I think it's a good idea to take the size of the clans down (but not drastically, only down to 12 - 14 players).

If we banded together, Anger Management could survive (if they were willing) and Snooker Legends would have more chance of surviving this time around.

Only thing would be the excess players that Allstarz, D&C , Nocturnal Assassins and Black Ballers would effectively have. I'm not one for kicking guys out, but if we could find a way that everybody was happy with and was fair, then I can see the potential for at least 9 clans at the start of the season,

I think it's something that captains and their clans should think about for now and I'll get in touch with captains this week to see what they think. Still a little bit of time, but had to be thought about before everyone signs millions of new players.