Rules problem on final black
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Deleted User
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15:17 Sat 6 Feb 10 (GMT) [Link]
When only the black is left on the table; when a player fouls the player with the higher points total wins. And is hence why you don't need to pot the black at the end of a break if you are more than 7 points ahead.
Because this website suffers from a large number of bad losers, I think this would be a welcome addition and save the half an hour we sometimes have to spend tip toeing around the black.
Because this website suffers from a large number of bad losers, I think this would be a welcome addition and save the half an hour we sometimes have to spend tip toeing around the black.
Deleted User
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13:16 Sun 7 Feb 10 (GMT) [Link]
Sounds like he means for all games.
I don't see this as a necessary addition, as the black takes only a few shots maximum to get off the table.
I don't see this as a necessary addition, as the black takes only a few shots maximum to get off the table.
Deleted User
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09:30 Tue 9 Feb 10 (GMT) [Link]
I did mean all games but I see how it would eliminate some double DQs in the tournament.
Its just like if your say 60-50 up and on the last shot you should be able to go for it without fear of fouling and losing the frame.
"
SECTION 2. DEFINITIONS
1. Frame
A frame of snooker comprises the period of the play from the first stroke, with all the balls set as described in Section 3 Rule 2, until the frame is completed by:
(a) concession by any player during his turn,
(b) claim by the striker when only the Black remains and there is more than seven points difference between the scores in his favour,
(c) the final pot or foul when only the Black remains, or
(d) being awarded by the referee under Section 3 Rule 14(c) or Section 4 Rule 2.
"
Its just like if your say 60-50 up and on the last shot you should be able to go for it without fear of fouling and losing the frame.
"
SECTION 2. DEFINITIONS
1. Frame
A frame of snooker comprises the period of the play from the first stroke, with all the balls set as described in Section 3 Rule 2, until the frame is completed by:
(a) concession by any player during his turn,
(b) claim by the striker when only the Black remains and there is more than seven points difference between the scores in his favour,
(c) the final pot or foul when only the Black remains, or
(d) being awarded by the referee under Section 3 Rule 14(c) or Section 4 Rule 2.
"
Deleted User
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09:54 Tue 9 Feb 10 (GMT) [Link]
Very good point that actually. For that reason, i see the need for this.
mb1 said:
I did mean all games but I see how it would eliminate some double DQs in the tournament.
Its just like if your say 60-50 up and on the last shot you should be able to go for it without fear of fouling and losing the frame.
Its just like if your say 60-50 up and on the last shot you should be able to go for it without fear of fouling and losing the frame.
Very good point that actually. For that reason, i see the need for this.
19:33 Tue 9 Feb 10 (GMT) [Link]
I have to confess I always thought that was a custom rather than a rule but I see I was wrong.
It does seem strange that you could be snookered by being angled on the black but wouldn't have to play it.
If you're 60-50 up it would ideally need an option to allow you to claim the win. If you play the last shot and foul then the game is still open (or that's how I interpret that).
Hmmmm, needs a bit of thought....
It does seem strange that you could be snookered by being angled on the black but wouldn't have to play it.
If you're 60-50 up it would ideally need an option to allow you to claim the win. If you play the last shot and foul then the game is still open (or that's how I interpret that).
Hmmmm, needs a bit of thought....
Deleted User
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00:39 Wed 10 Feb 10 (GMT) [Link]
i like the idea of a "claim the win button"
Deleted User
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07:58 Wed 10 Feb 10 (GMT) [Link]
Yeh, a claim the win option would be good.
You're right until the end. To paraphrase the quote I put earlier:
A frame is completed by ... foul when only the black remains.
Couple of scenarios:
Your 60-40 up and foul - you win 60-47 and black is not respotted.
Your 60-50 up and foul - you win 60-57 and black is not respotted.
Your 60-54 up and foul - you lose 60-61 and black is not respotted.
Your 60-53 up and foul - black is respotted with scores at 60-60.
Its up to you on this one though, its quite an overlooked rule and could cause some arguments.
nick said:
I have to confess I always thought that was a custom rather than a rule but I see I was wrong.
It does seem strange that you could be snookered by being angled on the black but wouldn't have to play it.
If you're 60-50 up it would ideally need an option to allow you to claim the win. If you play the last shot and foul then the game is still open (or that's how I interpret that).
Hmmmm, needs a bit of thought....
It does seem strange that you could be snookered by being angled on the black but wouldn't have to play it.
If you're 60-50 up it would ideally need an option to allow you to claim the win. If you play the last shot and foul then the game is still open (or that's how I interpret that).
Hmmmm, needs a bit of thought....
Yeh, a claim the win option would be good.
You're right until the end. To paraphrase the quote I put earlier:
A frame is completed by ... foul when only the black remains.
Couple of scenarios:
Your 60-40 up and foul - you win 60-47 and black is not respotted.
Your 60-50 up and foul - you win 60-57 and black is not respotted.
Your 60-54 up and foul - you lose 60-61 and black is not respotted.
Your 60-53 up and foul - black is respotted with scores at 60-60.
Its up to you on this one though, its quite an overlooked rule and could cause some arguments.
Deleted User
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19:00 Wed 10 Feb 10 (GMT) [Link]
Yeh, a claim the win option would be good.
You're right until the end. To paraphrase the quote I put earlier:
A frame is completed by ... foul when only the black remains.
Couple of scenarios:
Your 60-40 up and foul - you win 60-47 and black is not respotted.
Your 60-50 up and foul - you win 60-57 and black is not respotted.
Your 60-54 up and foul - you lose 60-61 and black is not respotted.
Your 60-53 up and foul - black is respotted with scores at 60-60.
Its up to you on this one though, its quite an overlooked rule and could cause some arguments.
Seriously don't get what you are saying or trying to say. It don't make any sense to me i'm sorry:S
mb1 said:
nick said:
I have to confess I always thought that was a custom rather than a rule but I see I was wrong.
It does seem strange that you could be snookered by being angled on the black but wouldn't have to play it.
If you're 60-50 up it would ideally need an option to allow you to claim the win. If you play the last shot and foul then the game is still open (or that's how I interpret that).
Hmmmm, needs a bit of thought....
It does seem strange that you could be snookered by being angled on the black but wouldn't have to play it.
If you're 60-50 up it would ideally need an option to allow you to claim the win. If you play the last shot and foul then the game is still open (or that's how I interpret that).
Hmmmm, needs a bit of thought....
Yeh, a claim the win option would be good.
You're right until the end. To paraphrase the quote I put earlier:
A frame is completed by ... foul when only the black remains.
Couple of scenarios:
Your 60-40 up and foul - you win 60-47 and black is not respotted.
Your 60-50 up and foul - you win 60-57 and black is not respotted.
Your 60-54 up and foul - you lose 60-61 and black is not respotted.
Your 60-53 up and foul - black is respotted with scores at 60-60.
Its up to you on this one though, its quite an overlooked rule and could cause some arguments.
Seriously don't get what you are saying or trying to say. It don't make any sense to me i'm sorry:S
Deleted User
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22:04 Wed 10 Feb 10 (GMT) [Link]
Also on Respots, if you pot the black and foul (or miss the black completely) , you lose, it doesn't get re-respotted.
06:09 Thu 11 Feb 10 (GMT) [Link]
Yeh, a claim the win option would be good.
You're right until the end. To paraphrase the quote I put earlier:
A frame is completed by ... foul when only the black remains.
Couple of scenarios:
Your 60-40 up and foul - you win 60-47 and black is not respotted.
Your 60-50 up and foul - you win 60-57 and black is not respotted.
Your 60-54 up and foul - you lose 60-61 and black is not respotted.
Your 60-53 up and foul - black is respotted with scores at 60-60.
Its up to you on this one though, its quite an overlooked rule and could cause some arguments.
Seriously don't get what you are saying or trying to say. It don't make any sense to me i'm sorry:S
Whats not to get..? Seem fairly straightforward to me...
The obvious problem with this though is that there will be a number of complaints after the second and third scenario's with "I was less than 7 points down and the black was still on the table, why couldn't we play on?"
junior_107 said:
mb1 said:
nick said:
I have to confess I always thought that was a custom rather than a rule but I see I was wrong.
It does seem strange that you could be snookered by being angled on the black but wouldn't have to play it.
If you're 60-50 up it would ideally need an option to allow you to claim the win. If you play the last shot and foul then the game is still open (or that's how I interpret that).
Hmmmm, needs a bit of thought....
It does seem strange that you could be snookered by being angled on the black but wouldn't have to play it.
If you're 60-50 up it would ideally need an option to allow you to claim the win. If you play the last shot and foul then the game is still open (or that's how I interpret that).
Hmmmm, needs a bit of thought....
Yeh, a claim the win option would be good.
You're right until the end. To paraphrase the quote I put earlier:
A frame is completed by ... foul when only the black remains.
Couple of scenarios:
Your 60-40 up and foul - you win 60-47 and black is not respotted.
Your 60-50 up and foul - you win 60-57 and black is not respotted.
Your 60-54 up and foul - you lose 60-61 and black is not respotted.
Your 60-53 up and foul - black is respotted with scores at 60-60.
Its up to you on this one though, its quite an overlooked rule and could cause some arguments.
Seriously don't get what you are saying or trying to say. It don't make any sense to me i'm sorry:S
Whats not to get..? Seem fairly straightforward to me...
The obvious problem with this though is that there will be a number of complaints after the second and third scenario's with "I was less than 7 points down and the black was still on the table, why couldn't we play on?"
Deleted User
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11:52 Thu 11 Feb 10 (GMT) [Link]
Yeh thats what I was worried about Iamtheworst.
Maybe an explanation in the game window at the time it happens could help the situation.
Maybe an explanation in the game window at the time it happens could help the situation.
00:50 Fri 12 Feb 10 (GMT) [Link]
Not a bad idea, but imagine how impractical this would be in a 10 second speed match! You wouldn't have time to read and understand the explanation before the time ran out.
mb1 said:
Yeh thats what I was worried about Iamtheworst.
Maybe an explanation in the game window at the time it happens could help the situation.
Maybe an explanation in the game window at the time it happens could help the situation.
Not a bad idea, but imagine how impractical this would be in a 10 second speed match! You wouldn't have time to read and understand the explanation before the time ran out.
Deleted User
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05:43 Fri 12 Feb 10 (GMT) [Link]
I think its a bad idea to be honest, just over complicating things if you ask me, just play safe if just the black left and pot it on next shot, no big deal like,
I'd say the percentage of frames won/lost because of this is very very very small indeed
I'd say the percentage of frames won/lost because of this is very very very small indeed
Deleted User
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07:51 Fri 12 Feb 10 (GMT) [Link]
In cases like this I always think that the best way to resolve it it to consult the official rules of Snooker
http://www.worldsnooker.com/rules_of_snooker.htm
nick said:
I have to confess I always thought that was a custom rather than a rule but I see I was wrong.
It does seem strange that you could be snookered by being angled on the black but wouldn't have to play it.
If you're 60-50 up it would ideally need an option to allow you to claim the win. If you play the last shot and foul then the game is still open (or that's how I interpret that).
Hmmmm, needs a bit of thought....
It does seem strange that you could be snookered by being angled on the black but wouldn't have to play it.
If you're 60-50 up it would ideally need an option to allow you to claim the win. If you play the last shot and foul then the game is still open (or that's how I interpret that).
Hmmmm, needs a bit of thought....
In cases like this I always think that the best way to resolve it it to consult the official rules of Snooker
http://www.worldsnooker.com/rules_of_snooker.htm
Extract from the Official Rules . Section 4 said:
...
4. End of Frame, Game or Match
(a) When only the Black is left, the first score or foul ends the frame excepting only if the following conditions both apply:
(i) the scores are then equal, and
(ii) aggregate scores are not relevant.
(b) When both conditions in (a) above apply
(i) the Black is spotted,
(ii) the players draw lots for choice of playing
(iii) the next player plays from in-hand, and
(iv) the next score or foul ends the frame.
(c) When aggregate scores determine the winner of a game or match, and the aggregate scores are equal at the end of the last frame, the players in that frame shall follow the procedure for a re-spotted Black set out in (b) above.
...
4. End of Frame, Game or Match
(a) When only the Black is left, the first score or foul ends the frame excepting only if the following conditions both apply:
(i) the scores are then equal, and
(ii) aggregate scores are not relevant.
(b) When both conditions in (a) above apply
(i) the Black is spotted,
(ii) the players draw lots for choice of playing
(iii) the next player plays from in-hand, and
(iv) the next score or foul ends the frame.
(c) When aggregate scores determine the winner of a game or match, and the aggregate scores are equal at the end of the last frame, the players in that frame shall follow the procedure for a re-spotted Black set out in (b) above.
...
Deleted User
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13:20 Fri 12 Feb 10 (GMT) [Link]
Not a bad idea, but imagine how impractical this would be in a 10 second speed match! You wouldn't have time to read and understand the explanation before the time ran out.
I meant an explanation after it had happened. Players would learn the rule after it happened once.
baff said:
mb1 said:
Yeh thats what I was worried about Iamtheworst.
Maybe an explanation in the game window at the time it happens could help the situation.
Maybe an explanation in the game window at the time it happens could help the situation.
Not a bad idea, but imagine how impractical this would be in a 10 second speed match! You wouldn't have time to read and understand the explanation before the time ran out.
I meant an explanation after it had happened. Players would learn the rule after it happened once.
Deleted User
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13:23 Fri 12 Feb 10 (GMT) [Link]
But it is a rule of snooker. Is potting a colour after every red over complicating things? Maybe we should just pot reds then all the colours after
_shergar_ said:
I think its a bad idea to be honest, just over complicating things if you ask me, just play safe if just the black left and pot it on next shot, no big deal like,
I'd say the percentage of frames won/lost because of this is very very very small indeed
I'd say the percentage of frames won/lost because of this is very very very small indeed
But it is a rule of snooker. Is potting a colour after every red over complicating things? Maybe we should just pot reds then all the colours after
11:24 Fri 19 Feb 10 (GMT) [Link]
OK.
When only the Black is left, the first score or foul ends the frame excepting only if the scores are then equal.
This will be changed for next patch. A small explanation will show if the game ends after a foul.
EDIT: In play now.
Edited by forum moderator nick, at 02:15 Sat 20/02/10 (GMT)
When only the Black is left, the first score or foul ends the frame excepting only if the scores are then equal.
This will be changed for next patch. A small explanation will show if the game ends after a foul.
EDIT: In play now.
Edited by forum moderator nick, at 02:15 Sat 20/02/10 (GMT)
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Rules problem on final black
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