lol so he is, i mean the other one, that....um.....dammit. Anyway yeh he's good

Easy mistake lol. Valdes

the only example ive ever seen of fergie being agood manager was when he was at aberdeen

fergie inherited a great academy with a large resale value and had some good scouts that is what got him the success

since then he has had good owners throughout willing to invest when needed unlike lfc

Between 2004 and 2009....

Liverpool spent 212 Million Pounds on players
Manchester United spent 169 Million on Players
Fact

And this doesnt include this seasons 8 million on Hernandez and 8 million or whatever on Bebe... OR the 50 million Liverpool spent on 2 strikers.

^ Those figures don't include money recouped (Net spend).

Now before I post a big long essay, I'd just like to say to Nicko that this is a good debate, between the 2 best clubs in England. Don't ruin it by silly sniping, this is not a playground!
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Right, been a few interesting comments since my last post.

Well firstly, I believe to be a great player you need many things, and a lot of those things were lacking in George Best. Have a look at Wikipedia for a list of the clubs he was at (something like 20)

King Kenny on the other hand was far more influential for a longer period of time than Georgie Best.

Lets look at goals. Neither were strikers, but it is the best factor we have:

(Consider the gap in Division one to playing for clubs like Nuneaton Borough and Melbourne Lions)

Best: 579 games - goals - 205
Dalgish - 559 goals - 230

When you consider that KK's main strnegth was setting Rush up on a plate then that is great going.
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On the Paisley V Fergie debate I want to make it very clear that I have always grudgingly respected Fergie for his acheivements at Aberdeen and Manchester United.

His Uefa cup with Aberdeen I see as his biggest achievement, and on the back of that he got his move to Manchester.

Then after many bad years he won the FA Cup and has never looked back since, but he will admit himself (indeed he already has) he has never won enough European Cups.
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Finally, 26 years on, - RIP the 39 who died at Heysel.

M_Wood, I would just also like to say that I understand your bitterness towards Paisley and Liverpool.

However, I would also like to add that I hope you are promoted next season (IMO you will be) and can rebuild yourselves back to the club you once were.

Forest are one of the greatest English clubs up their with the best of us.

Liverpool and Forest were the United and Arsenal/Chelsea of a previous era.

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I make no apologies for remeniscing about old times. When I was very young, I used to listen in awe at my Grandads (RIP) old tales of footballers he had seen.

He was a Bolton fan, but took a keen interest in good teams as well.

He would tell me all about the greats he had seen over the years, from Pele, Maradonna, then moving on to the Platini, Dalglish, Best (who he used as an example to me of players who as he said it had 'ruined his career'). Then the great managers, the Busby's, the Shankly's the Paisleys, the Cloughs, The Fagans of this world.

Now again, I will never say sorry for drawing upon my clubs illustrious history, I am fiercly proud of Liverpool and everything it stands for.

I have no problems with anybody else who wants to talk about their clubs past, glorious or otherwise. Liverpools past is the yardstick for Liverpools present. As Shankly said "If you are first you are first. If you are second you are nothing".

Edited at 01:24 Tue 31/05/11 (BST)

Mate there was no sniping of the like in my posts!
You were referring to Fergie being an "alco" I simply said it wasn't really valid.

What about the countless trophies hes won at united?
The Amazing Treble?
The Doubles, rebuilding team after team and still being one of the best teams around?

Everyones blowing Guardiolas horn, Has nobody realised he inherited around 95% of his team at barca?
And he inherited the youth system obviously, and everything else that was already in place before he got there?

Also, the_kop...

Yes Kennies goal record was brilliant, but even so, he was still not even half as naturally gifted as Best!

No matter what any hardcore liverpool fans say, its virtually impossible to hold Kenny Dalglish in the same respect as George Best, he just wasnt of the same calibre..

not everyone is blowing guardiola's horn i say that barcelona probably don't even need a manger tbh they are so good


and best would have had a better record if he wasnt drinking all the time he was an amazing player with some amazing goals and performances but dalglish is a model professional and has been very successful in football at every level

Liverpool trophies 1976-1977

League Champions
European Cup
Super Cup
Charity shield (was shared but still go down as joint winners)

Right... that is 4 trophies won in 1 year by Paisley. You may class Charity Shield and Super cup as minor trophies, but still trophies won all the same. (I am aware including minor trophies Man Utd won 4 in 1999 also)

Should I carry on about the other 2 multiple (by which I mean 3 or more) trophy wins Liverpool have had in one season? (1983-1984 3 trophies, 2000-2001 5 trophies)

Paisley was far better than Ferguson could ever be, then again so was Shankly, and Fagan is up there too.

And also by your working out that Ferguson won more trophies in a season it makes him better, does this mean Houllier is superior to Ferguson?

Yeah I don't think he is either.

I never said because he won more in a season, but the overall work Ferguson has done has undoubtedly made him the best manager of all time.

Paisley never really had to rebuild like Ferguson has, and every time he rebuilds he makes a team capable of challenging for everything (proven by this season).

I could rebuild a side with the money Fergie has had.

He has £30M players warming his bench!

As I said Fergie has done great things, and will be rightly credited with being a great manager.

He is however, not a patch on Bob, and undeserving of being a knight of the realm to be quite frank.

He hardly wears that title with the dignity of someone like Bobby Charlton for example.

Although making Fergie a Sir was very little to do with football, and more to do with New Labour politics.

Aye, Fergie donated a lot of money in the 1997 Uk general election to the Benefit party (labour).
Was Daglish liverpool manager when all english clubs were banned from europe? Reckon he might have won it once or twice as a gaffa if english clubs were not banned during the late 80's and early 90's

Aye Fergie has pumped an awful lot of money into new labour, and he even did a party political broadcast for labour leading up to that election.

Not to mention that Manc fans all clammered for Fergie a knighthood, and New Labour new that it would be a big vote winner in Manchester which at the time were undecided which way to vote.

'Services to football' is the official title for his award, but it was done on a nod and a wink by Alistair Campbell, who was New Labours spin doctor during the Blair years. Basically his job was to look after the image of New Labour.

I think the knighthood Fergie has distorts peoples view on him, but it was more political than sporting.
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The fact that Bill Shankly was never knighted is no suprise, he was a socialist, and would never have accepted an award off the Queen, because he was against everything she stood for and he publicly said that.

Paisley would have accepted grudgingly, because he was that modest, he wouldn't have been comfortable in the spotlight in that way.

Kenny could be knighted very soon but the chances are he won't be, certainly not by a conservative government.

And Yeah Kenny was the manager during English clubs being banned from European competition from the aftermath of Heysel.

He just won League titles instead

Edited at 23:17 Fri 03/06/11 (BST)

Jose Mourinho back in his Porto days:

"My reputation is very important to me," insists the Porto boss. "I want people to remember me as one of the all-time great managers. I want to leave my mark in football history and be remembered like Bill Shankly and Bob Paisley.

"I loved the way Liverpool played in the Seventies and Eighties. I loved Kenny Dalglish, Graeme Souness, Phil Thompson, Ray Clemence and Ian Rush - now I want the same success."

That lad knows his stuff

I have to be honest, I'm actually really enjoying this..

But Bob Paisley doesn't have a patch on Sir Fergie, and to be honest, no manager does..

No matter what the situation, who the player, Fergie is not afraid to lose them ; beckham, hughes, ince, keane, van nistelrooy, all legends but yet Fergie still got rid, and still done unbelievably good without, not many managers are that confident in themselves or their club...

Paisley used a squad that was Largely Shanklys. He is the Pep Guardiola of his day.

Ferguson HANDS DOWN Is the best British manager of all time. Maybe you are are forgetting that he won the Uefa Cup with Aberdeen. Maybe you are forgetting that he has been at the top for 25 years and ALL his players are HIS players, HIS team, he didnt inherit them did he. He has remained at the top in a Modern World where managers lose their jobs if they lose 5 in a row. Paisley would not survive in this era.

Fergie has been in football a long time, and winning the treble deserved a Knighthood.

Even the Independent Newspaper say Fergie is the best british manager of all time, and your Bob Paisley didnt even make the top 2, because Clough was ahead of him. Clough was a far better manager than Paisley, hence why Cloughs FOREST won the European Cup TWICE.. and not only twice... BUT DURING THE PAISLEY ERA. And Clough, as is well known, was the greatest manager never to Manage England. Not Paisley. Clough

Seems funny how it's only scousers that don't agree...

most of clough's success was down to peter taylor as much as clough...

and i don't remember clough doing too well at leeds either.

Clough was ahead of Paisley purely because he made the headlines more often and was more controversial which newspapers like the Independent enjoyed very much