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17:36 Sat 4 Jun 11 (BST) [Link]
Leeds United, a team he was at for 7 games, yeah, good assessment there, and yet he won the League with Forest AND Derby AND European Cups AND League Cup 4 times all in the 'Paisley Era' and Dalgleish era for that matter..
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18:38 Sat 4 Jun 11 (BST) [Link]
I think you watched dammed united and bought into it too much.
Was it Derby or forest were he won the 2nd division and went straight into the first division and won it?
Roy keane has been managed by Fergie and Clough and rated clough better in his autobiography.
Lol at who ever thought fagan is one of the great managers he inherited Paisleys team for one season and won the European cup.
Sir Alf Ramsey is better than the lot.
virt_slayer said:
most of clough's success was down to peter taylor as much as clough...
and i don't remember clough doing too well at leeds either.
Clough was ahead of Paisley purely because he made the headlines more often and was more controversial which newspapers like the Independent enjoyed very much
and i don't remember clough doing too well at leeds either.
Clough was ahead of Paisley purely because he made the headlines more often and was more controversial which newspapers like the Independent enjoyed very much
I think you watched dammed united and bought into it too much.
Was it Derby or forest were he won the 2nd division and went straight into the first division and won it?
Roy keane has been managed by Fergie and Clough and rated clough better in his autobiography.
Lol at who ever thought fagan is one of the great managers he inherited Paisleys team for one season and won the European cup.
Sir Alf Ramsey is better than the lot.
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19:26 Sat 4 Jun 11 (BST) [Link]
I did quite well at Maths in school, got myself a C.
I think I am qualified to say winning the European cup 3 times, is better than 2 times.
Though maybe thats just me.
Who is the only manager in the whole wide history of football, to win the champions league 3 times?
Its Bob Paisley. Did it in 6 years, whereas Fergie has 2 in 25.
Atrocious.
m_wood said:
Paisley used a squad that was Largely Shanklys. He is the Pep Guardiola of his day.
Ferguson HANDS DOWN Is the best British manager of all time. Maybe you are are forgetting that he won the Uefa Cup with Aberdeen. Maybe you are forgetting that he has been at the top for 25 years and ALL his players are HIS players, HIS team, he didnt inherit them did he. He has remained at the top in a Modern World where managers lose their jobs if they lose 5 in a row. Paisley would not survive in this era.
Fergie has been in football a long time, and winning the treble deserved a Knighthood.
Even the Independent Newspaper say Fergie is the best british manager of all time, and your Bob Paisley didnt even make the top 2, because Clough was ahead of him. Clough was a far better manager than Paisley, hence why Cloughs FOREST won the European Cup TWICE.. and not only twice... BUT DURING THE PAISLEY ERA. And Clough, as is well known, was the greatest manager never to Manage England. Not Paisley. Clough
Ferguson HANDS DOWN Is the best British manager of all time. Maybe you are are forgetting that he won the Uefa Cup with Aberdeen. Maybe you are forgetting that he has been at the top for 25 years and ALL his players are HIS players, HIS team, he didnt inherit them did he. He has remained at the top in a Modern World where managers lose their jobs if they lose 5 in a row. Paisley would not survive in this era.
Fergie has been in football a long time, and winning the treble deserved a Knighthood.
Even the Independent Newspaper say Fergie is the best british manager of all time, and your Bob Paisley didnt even make the top 2, because Clough was ahead of him. Clough was a far better manager than Paisley, hence why Cloughs FOREST won the European Cup TWICE.. and not only twice... BUT DURING THE PAISLEY ERA. And Clough, as is well known, was the greatest manager never to Manage England. Not Paisley. Clough
I did quite well at Maths in school, got myself a C.
I think I am qualified to say winning the European cup 3 times, is better than 2 times.
Though maybe thats just me.
Who is the only manager in the whole wide history of football, to win the champions league 3 times?
Its Bob Paisley. Did it in 6 years, whereas Fergie has 2 in 25.
Atrocious.
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20:43 Sat 4 Jun 11 (BST) [Link]
I think this thread is hilarious! Somebody should rename this thread Paisley vs Ferguson!
Figures and statistics can be used to prove absolutely anything. No matter what you think of, there is statistics to back it up.
For example, Ferguson has won how many league titles? How many has Paisley? He doesn't have as many as Ferguson anyway.
Personally, I dont care either way about this debate, I am just enjoying reading two polar opposite arguing over something they will never agree on because they support two different clubs.
Figures and statistics can be used to prove absolutely anything. No matter what you think of, there is statistics to back it up.
For example, Ferguson has won how many league titles? How many has Paisley? He doesn't have as many as Ferguson anyway.
Personally, I dont care either way about this debate, I am just enjoying reading two polar opposite arguing over something they will never agree on because they support two different clubs.
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22:10 Sat 4 Jun 11 (BST) [Link]
Yeah you're right, we wont agree, its nature.
But No matter what you say, you agree about Fergie being the best
But No matter what you say, you agree about Fergie being the best
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02:44 Sun 5 Jun 11 (BST) [Link]
Well I think there are 2 key trophies in football, the 2 most prestigious.
The league and the Champions League/European Cup, so if we look at it on that basis:
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Paisley won 3 Champions Leagues in a total of 9 years
Fergie has won 2 Champions Leagues in 25 years.
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Paisley won 6 league titles in 9 years.
Ferguson has won 12 league titles within 25 years
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Paisley may have inherited a great team thanks to the legendary Bill Shankly but he still rebuilt it with some great signings, such as Kevin Keegan for 35K, Keegan then left and we signed the real KK, - King Kenny.
The best player to ever play for Liverpool.
The stats back Paisley really, all Fergie has in his favour is he started managing a lot earlier than Paisley, yet still he hasn't even matched Paisleys European record.
But then again, no man either living or dead has. He is the only man to have managed a team to 3 Champions League titles.
Mourinho, Guardiola and Fergie are one away. Only Guardiola can do it in less time however.
The league and the Champions League/European Cup, so if we look at it on that basis:
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Paisley won 3 Champions Leagues in a total of 9 years
Fergie has won 2 Champions Leagues in 25 years.
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Paisley won 6 league titles in 9 years.
Ferguson has won 12 league titles within 25 years
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Paisley may have inherited a great team thanks to the legendary Bill Shankly but he still rebuilt it with some great signings, such as Kevin Keegan for 35K, Keegan then left and we signed the real KK, - King Kenny.
The best player to ever play for Liverpool.
The stats back Paisley really, all Fergie has in his favour is he started managing a lot earlier than Paisley, yet still he hasn't even matched Paisleys European record.
But then again, no man either living or dead has. He is the only man to have managed a team to 3 Champions League titles.
Mourinho, Guardiola and Fergie are one away. Only Guardiola can do it in less time however.
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02:54 Sun 5 Jun 11 (BST) [Link]
im afraid guardiola probably will as well...
03:10 Sun 5 Jun 11 (BST) [Link]
Ferguson is superior. He won the European Cup with 2 different Manchester United Teams. the 1999 team and the 2008 team. Paisley did not achieve this. The Liverpool team was just at a peak in the cycle of the team, much like Barcelona now. Ferguson sustained his dominance in the Premier League and 9 years later won the Champions League again with a completly different set of players
Ferguson has More League titles than Paisley.
As for saying Paisley is better because he has 3 European cups errrm so? What you gonna say if Fergie wins 3? You gonna bow down ? Nah course not.
Edited at 00:35 Sun 05/06/11 (BST)
Ferguson has More League titles than Paisley.
As for saying Paisley is better because he has 3 European cups errrm so? What you gonna say if Fergie wins 3? You gonna bow down ? Nah course not.
Edited at 00:35 Sun 05/06/11 (BST)
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04:37 Sun 5 Jun 11 (BST) [Link]
m_wood, your agrument makes no sense. You make one rule for Paisley and another for Cloughy and Fergie.
No person on earth could dress up 2 wins in 25 years as being superior, compared to 3 wins in 9 seasons but you seem to be trying.
Bob is Superior to every person on earth when it comes to European cups. That is FACT!
If Fergie wins 3 then well done him, but 3 in 26 years is not great for a club of Uniteds stature. Certainly not as good as 3 in 9 years.
And of course Fergie has more league titles than Paisley he has been there 3 times longer than Paisley at Liverpool. Liverpool had 0 European Cups, before Bob took over. 3 when he left though.
By the way, if you look on United forums the vast majority will tell you that it was in fact....
Sir Matt Busby. who is Manchester Uniteds best manager ever
I would argue that Sir Matt Busby, Bob Paisley, Bill Shankly, and Jock Stein were all better than Fergie, though of course, it is hard to try and explain that to people on here, who have no recollection, or willingness to learn of those great men.
There are also current managers who are up their with Fergie right now.
Certainly for me Paisley and Sir Matt were kings amongst men, Sir Matt took a team devestated by the Munich Air Disaster and rebuilt a fantastic team.
Paisley won everything bar the Fa Cup, and did it in 9 years.
It took Fergie 6 years, just to win an Fa Cup.
No person on earth could dress up 2 wins in 25 years as being superior, compared to 3 wins in 9 seasons but you seem to be trying.
Bob is Superior to every person on earth when it comes to European cups. That is FACT!
If Fergie wins 3 then well done him, but 3 in 26 years is not great for a club of Uniteds stature. Certainly not as good as 3 in 9 years.
And of course Fergie has more league titles than Paisley he has been there 3 times longer than Paisley at Liverpool. Liverpool had 0 European Cups, before Bob took over. 3 when he left though.
By the way, if you look on United forums the vast majority will tell you that it was in fact....
Sir Matt Busby. who is Manchester Uniteds best manager ever
I would argue that Sir Matt Busby, Bob Paisley, Bill Shankly, and Jock Stein were all better than Fergie, though of course, it is hard to try and explain that to people on here, who have no recollection, or willingness to learn of those great men.
There are also current managers who are up their with Fergie right now.
Certainly for me Paisley and Sir Matt were kings amongst men, Sir Matt took a team devestated by the Munich Air Disaster and rebuilt a fantastic team.
Paisley won everything bar the Fa Cup, and did it in 9 years.
It took Fergie 6 years, just to win an Fa Cup.
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04:43 Sun 5 Jun 11 (BST) [Link]
Oh yeah.... and psssst
Bob Paisleys win % was and is significantly better than Fergies.
Bob Paisleys win % was and is significantly better than Fergies.
13:10 Sun 5 Jun 11 (BST) [Link]
Think youll find Bobs win percentage is 56% and Fergies at United is 59%, and Fergie has managed for an extra 16 years and STILL Has a better record.
Paisley has won 3 European Cup
Fergie has won 2 AND the Uefa with Aberdeen. Fergies feat is GREATER.
Lets be honest. Liverpool fans will NEVER agree that Fergie is the better Manager. Even though his team has now Surpassed Liverpools 18 titles.
Fergie has been at the top with a team he has constantly rebuilt
Paisley had NO rebuilding to do because he got out of management before he had to.
Fergie wins, so just accept it buttercup
Edited at 11:00 Sun 05/06/11 (BST)
Paisley has won 3 European Cup
Fergie has won 2 AND the Uefa with Aberdeen. Fergies feat is GREATER.
Lets be honest. Liverpool fans will NEVER agree that Fergie is the better Manager. Even though his team has now Surpassed Liverpools 18 titles.
Fergie has been at the top with a team he has constantly rebuilt
Paisley had NO rebuilding to do because he got out of management before he had to.
Fergie wins, so just accept it buttercup
Edited at 11:00 Sun 05/06/11 (BST)
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16:10 Sun 5 Jun 11 (BST) [Link]
Paisley inherited a team, Fact!
Same as Guardiola inherited a team.
Fergie has been building Manchester United for 25 years, and been ruling English Football for 25 years.
Fergie has won over 36 trophies with United in 25 years... Paisley I guarantee would have hit more difficulty had he to rebuild a team, instead of leaving before the going got tough.
Same as Guardiola inherited a team.
Fergie has been building Manchester United for 25 years, and been ruling English Football for 25 years.
Fergie has won over 36 trophies with United in 25 years... Paisley I guarantee would have hit more difficulty had he to rebuild a team, instead of leaving before the going got tough.
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17:46 Sun 5 Jun 11 (BST) [Link]
Is that a serious comment Nicko? Paisley left while the going got tough!?
Oh dear, how embarassing. He became a Director at Liverpool before being diagnosed with Alzhiemers. Don't come up with lazy stuff like that. He was an old man who had fought in the world war and served Liverpool for 44 years, he was entitled to a rest.
M_wood. Fergie NEVER won the UEFA Cup with Aberdeen, why are you lying?
You wanna know a man who did though, try Bob Paisley with Liverpool.
Paisley owns Fergie in Europe. There is no denying that.
Fergie himself admits that his European record is a disapointment to him, but it seems a certain Forest fan won't accept that.
Paisley also admits he should have won an FA Cup, and I can admit that he should have.
You see, we were robbed in the final
Forest fans are a funny breed, especially when it comes to Paisley. Looking at their forum they seem bitter that Paisley kept finishing above them in the league.
Oh dear, how embarassing. He became a Director at Liverpool before being diagnosed with Alzhiemers. Don't come up with lazy stuff like that. He was an old man who had fought in the world war and served Liverpool for 44 years, he was entitled to a rest.
M_wood. Fergie NEVER won the UEFA Cup with Aberdeen, why are you lying?
You wanna know a man who did though, try Bob Paisley with Liverpool.
Paisley owns Fergie in Europe. There is no denying that.
Fergie himself admits that his European record is a disapointment to him, but it seems a certain Forest fan won't accept that.
Paisley also admits he should have won an FA Cup, and I can admit that he should have.
You see, we were robbed in the final
Forest fans are a funny breed, especially when it comes to Paisley. Looking at their forum they seem bitter that Paisley kept finishing above them in the league.
17:03 Mon 6 Jun 11 (BST) [Link]
Think youll find that Aberdeen won the Uefa Cup Winners Cup in 1983 when they beat Real Madrid in the final.
I am not a Funny breed Nottingham Forest fan actually. I used to like Liverpool but their fans are the reason I dislike them as they just go back to old glory years, and claim that they dont have money to spend on new players even though Benitez spent nearly 200 million on players who wouldnt even make Donny Rovers win promoiton.
As for my attitude on Paisley. Sure he was a great manager, one of the best, there is no denying this whatsoever. But Ferguson has achieved much greater and sustained being the biggest team in England for 20 years. And so Bob Paisley won just 1 more European cup.. so? That doesnt make him greater
Lets break it down a bit further for you shall we...
Fergusons United lost to Barcelona in 2009 AND 2011.... And as everybody is saying, this Barcelona time is probably the best football team EVER. So Fergie lost to the best team that there has EVER BEEN. If Barcelona hadnt of got this team, Fergie could well have won 4 European Cups by now.And I think youll find Forest won the League when Paisley was manager youth
I am not a Funny breed Nottingham Forest fan actually. I used to like Liverpool but their fans are the reason I dislike them as they just go back to old glory years, and claim that they dont have money to spend on new players even though Benitez spent nearly 200 million on players who wouldnt even make Donny Rovers win promoiton.
As for my attitude on Paisley. Sure he was a great manager, one of the best, there is no denying this whatsoever. But Ferguson has achieved much greater and sustained being the biggest team in England for 20 years. And so Bob Paisley won just 1 more European cup.. so? That doesnt make him greater
Lets break it down a bit further for you shall we...
Fergusons United lost to Barcelona in 2009 AND 2011.... And as everybody is saying, this Barcelona time is probably the best football team EVER. So Fergie lost to the best team that there has EVER BEEN. If Barcelona hadnt of got this team, Fergie could well have won 4 European Cups by now.And I think youll find Forest won the League when Paisley was manager youth
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20:24 Mon 6 Jun 11 (BST) [Link]
M_wood, you said Fergie had won the UEFA Cup with Aberdeen.
He didn't. He won the cup winners cup (where FA cup winners from all around Europe played each other - doesn't even exist anymore)
Barca were not that great in 2009, that poor Liverpool team you mention under Benitez won the Champions league. They beat Barca at the Nou Camp, they beat Madrid at The Bernabau, they battered them 4-0 at Anfield. We have battered pretty much every team in Europe in the past 5 years. Benitez brought our history back into the public domain by making that magical 5! A number which means we have Man Uniteds trophy in 1999 permanently sat at Anfield
Paisley winning the Champions League 3 times in 6 years is better than fergie winning it twice in 25 years. Do you not agree with that?
Fergie winning the league 12 times is better than Paisleys 6 times, though paisley was Liverpool manager for only 9 years, so could never win 12 league titles.
Finally, Liverpool have won more trophies than Man United. We are still the most succesful team in the country, and that isn't history. That is still the present.
FACT
Edited at 17:28 Mon 06/06/11 (BST)
He didn't. He won the cup winners cup (where FA cup winners from all around Europe played each other - doesn't even exist anymore)
Barca were not that great in 2009, that poor Liverpool team you mention under Benitez won the Champions league. They beat Barca at the Nou Camp, they beat Madrid at The Bernabau, they battered them 4-0 at Anfield. We have battered pretty much every team in Europe in the past 5 years. Benitez brought our history back into the public domain by making that magical 5! A number which means we have Man Uniteds trophy in 1999 permanently sat at Anfield
Paisley winning the Champions League 3 times in 6 years is better than fergie winning it twice in 25 years. Do you not agree with that?
Fergie winning the league 12 times is better than Paisleys 6 times, though paisley was Liverpool manager for only 9 years, so could never win 12 league titles.
Finally, Liverpool have won more trophies than Man United. We are still the most succesful team in the country, and that isn't history. That is still the present.
FACT
Edited at 17:28 Mon 06/06/11 (BST)
22:10 Mon 6 Jun 11 (BST) [Link]
I love it when you claim things, i then put you in your place with the actual facts.
Just like you claimed Paisleys winning percentage was higher than Fergies when it wasnt, you have now come up with a little gem claiming Liverpool are the most successful team in the country... well, you are wrong
Liverpool have won 58 Trophys. Manchester United have won 59 and that includes 19 times the League.
Barcelona wernt that great in 2009? HAHAHAHA Are you having a laugh!?!?!? Barcelona being pretty much the Spain team that won the Euros in 2008. Sure you had a 4-0 over a very poor Madrid team, but United destroyed Roma 7-1 and this is why Man Utd have been in more champions league finals the last 5 years than your Liverpool AND Have remained challenging for League honours at the same time. Remind me, where did Liverpool finish in the League last season and for that matter in Europe? Hmmm
No Paisley winning the European Crown 3 times in 6 years is not better than Fergie. Fergie did it with 2 Man Utd teams, completly different squads, Paisley didnt. Jose Mourinho is better than Paisley in Europe. Hes won it with 2 different teams.
Fergies better. Fact Hes the most succesful manager at the most succesful club. You cant argue that those statistics im afraid
Just like you claimed Paisleys winning percentage was higher than Fergies when it wasnt, you have now come up with a little gem claiming Liverpool are the most successful team in the country... well, you are wrong
Liverpool have won 58 Trophys. Manchester United have won 59 and that includes 19 times the League.
Barcelona wernt that great in 2009? HAHAHAHA Are you having a laugh!?!?!? Barcelona being pretty much the Spain team that won the Euros in 2008. Sure you had a 4-0 over a very poor Madrid team, but United destroyed Roma 7-1 and this is why Man Utd have been in more champions league finals the last 5 years than your Liverpool AND Have remained challenging for League honours at the same time. Remind me, where did Liverpool finish in the League last season and for that matter in Europe? Hmmm
No Paisley winning the European Crown 3 times in 6 years is not better than Fergie. Fergie did it with 2 Man Utd teams, completly different squads, Paisley didnt. Jose Mourinho is better than Paisley in Europe. Hes won it with 2 different teams.
Fergies better. Fact Hes the most succesful manager at the most succesful club. You cant argue that those statistics im afraid
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22:19 Mon 6 Jun 11 (BST) [Link]
http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/history/honours
89 trophies overall
77 from first team
http://www.thefootballnetwork.net/main/s237/st24469.htm
57 without seniors
93 with
Fact 77 is more than 57
89 trophies overall
77 from first team
http://www.thefootballnetwork.net/main/s237/st24469.htm
57 without seniors
93 with
Fact 77 is more than 57
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22:20 Mon 6 Jun 11 (BST) [Link]
where did nottingham forest finish in the premier league last year? oh... wait.
m_wood said:
I love it when you claim things, i then put you in your place with the actual facts.
Just like you claimed Paisleys winning percentage was higher than Fergies when it wasnt, you have now come up with a little gem claiming Liverpool are the most successful team in the country... well, you are wrong
Liverpool have won 58 Trophys. Manchester United have won 59 and that includes 19 times the League.
Barcelona wernt that great in 2009? HAHAHAHA Are you having a laugh!?!?!? Barcelona being pretty much the Spain team that won the Euros in 2008. Sure you had a 4-0 over a very poor Madrid team, but United destroyed Roma 7-1 and this is why Man Utd have been in more champions league finals the last 5 years than your Liverpool AND Have remained challenging for League honours at the same time. Remind me, where did Liverpool finish in the League last season and for that matter in Europe? Hmmm
No Paisley winning the European Crown 3 times in 6 years is not better than Fergie. Fergie did it with 2 Man Utd teams, completly different squads, Paisley didnt. Jose Mourinho is better than Paisley in Europe. Hes won it with 2 different teams.
Fergies better. Fact Hes the most succesful manager at the most succesful club. You cant argue that those statistics im afraid
Just like you claimed Paisleys winning percentage was higher than Fergies when it wasnt, you have now come up with a little gem claiming Liverpool are the most successful team in the country... well, you are wrong
Liverpool have won 58 Trophys. Manchester United have won 59 and that includes 19 times the League.
Barcelona wernt that great in 2009? HAHAHAHA Are you having a laugh!?!?!? Barcelona being pretty much the Spain team that won the Euros in 2008. Sure you had a 4-0 over a very poor Madrid team, but United destroyed Roma 7-1 and this is why Man Utd have been in more champions league finals the last 5 years than your Liverpool AND Have remained challenging for League honours at the same time. Remind me, where did Liverpool finish in the League last season and for that matter in Europe? Hmmm
No Paisley winning the European Crown 3 times in 6 years is not better than Fergie. Fergie did it with 2 Man Utd teams, completly different squads, Paisley didnt. Jose Mourinho is better than Paisley in Europe. Hes won it with 2 different teams.
Fergies better. Fact Hes the most succesful manager at the most succesful club. You cant argue that those statistics im afraid
where did nottingham forest finish in the premier league last year? oh... wait.
01:40 Tue 7 Jun 11 (BST) [Link]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_records_in_England#Most_successful_clubs_overall_.281871_.E2.80.93_present.29
Read and weep.
As for Forest not being in the Prem awwww, hardly a level playing field is it when we have never had Multi Millionaire Owners sunshine
Read and weep.
As for Forest not being in the Prem awwww, hardly a level playing field is it when we have never had Multi Millionaire Owners sunshine
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02:11 Tue 7 Jun 11 (BST) [Link]
wikepedia? you actually trust wikepedia? oh dear...
trust the liverpool website not some site where anybody can write on it
trust the liverpool website not some site where anybody can write on it
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united vs barca
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