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Deleted User
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06:42 Tue 27 Dec 11 (GMT)  [Link]  
jack_pot said:
Enrique, we let l'pool have, and we've replaced him with Santon who is twice as good.


had to do a double take there.

Is this the Santon who has played what 4 games for Newcastle? Don't be soft. We certainly got the best of that deal.

Santon may well become a good full back, but at the moment he is far from it.
mich
mich
Posts: 2,255
13:54 Tue 27 Dec 11 (GMT)  [Link]  
Liverpool game...

When your best player on the day is a winger (who is meant to be the creator of goals etc) and it finishes 1-1 and he had no part in the goal you have got to ask questions about your team.

Carroll - looked up for it first have few great challenged then misses from 3 yards out. Second half had it put to him on a plate by Downing and just looked at the ball and left it. Is not suited to Liverpool's style of play.

Adam - Shocking, has only really performed in 1 game for us IMO and that isn't good enough.

Henderson - Hasn't got a clue what he is doing, you can go on about him having the pressure of living up to the price tag but standing there doing nothing spraying 40 yard balls to the opposition is doing nothing.

All the players above are players who look good in an average team, put them in a good team and they fall to pieces and fail to perform.

Downing - Our best player on the day and was merely average starting to get better by the week though and I hope this is a build in confidence for him and the goals and assists come in soon.

Gerrard - When he finally came on just lacked the bite he once had, jumped out of challenges, looked scared and in general like he didn't want to be there. Think after this season he may move on.

Suarez - Looks ike this court case is troubling his play, missing headers in which he would usually drop in and was just knocking the ball too hard and didn't have his usual flare.
mich
mich
Posts: 2,255
14:01 Tue 27 Dec 11 (GMT)  [Link]  
Agger - had a bit of a mare once or twice being ripped by Blackburn, from where I was (right on line about 6 rows up) looked to be pushed in the corner to what lead to their corner for the goal. (On second look on MOTD looked nothing more than tussling for the ball) He did however look to be pushed in the final minute just before Carroll had a easy looking tap in pushed round the post so make of that what you will.

We should definately have had a pen when Maxi was brought down in the first half, however given our penalty success this season that would not have changed the game anyway.

Sure there was a few more calls we could have had but will have to look over the whole match again as BBC only shows about 30 seconds of Liverpool.

At the end of the day, we are missing Lucas, and lacking a natural finisher. Suarez is not a striker more of the typpe of player you give a free role behind a striker to do all the hardf work dodging and weaving with the ball and drop it off to the finisher.

Blackburn were poor and we failed to capitalise which in turn makes us just as bad in my eyes. But yet again the opposing keeper comes to play against Liverpool and has a blinder of a game. 22 attempts for us and 1 goal says everything you need to know.
Deleted User
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14:43 Tue 27 Dec 11 (GMT)  [Link]  
Let it all out Mich!
jack_pot
jack_pot
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14:58 Tue 27 Dec 11 (GMT)  [Link]  
2good said:
jack_pot said:
Enrique, we let l'pool have, and we've replaced him with Santon who is twice as good.


had to do a double take there.

Is this the Santon who has played what 4 games for Newcastle? Don't be soft. We certainly got the best of that deal.

Santon may well become a good full back, but at the moment he is far from it.


Doesn't matter how many games he's played for us, it's clear to see that he's a much better player than Enrique. Enrique is good, but I never had that "wow" feeling when watching him play.
mich
mich
Posts: 2,255
15:18 Tue 27 Dec 11 (GMT)  [Link]  
2good said:
Let it all out Mich!


That's just the tip of the iceberg, if you want more here goes...

Kenny hasn't got a clue, sorry I like him as a person and for everything we done for him but I and a lot of other Liverpool fans must admit we were wrong when we appointed him. He is too friendly with the players.

We need a manager the players are scared of, like Mourinho or ferguson players are scared of them, and they get the results.

Bellamy has been one of our better players yet Kenny fails to start him, we need a commanding player on the pitch, at the minute our loudest player on the pitch is Pepe and that isn't good enough.

Play 3 Centre backs and drop Adam or Henderson, put Carra in between Agger and Skrtel and play Johnson and Enrique as wing backs just behind the midfield. Play one striker, probably Bellamy if I look at the form people are in at the minute. Play Downing and Kuyt on the wings with Gerrard and probably Henderson in the middle. (For when Suarez is out, swap Suarez and Bellamy when he is back, unless we get a striker then a bit of a shuffle around is needed.)

---------------------------Reina---------------------------

----------Squirtle ------Carra-----Dagger-----------

-Johnson--------------------------------------Enrique-

Kuyt----------Gerrard------Hendo--------Downing-

---------------------Suarez/Bellamy---------------------
mich
mich
Posts: 2,255
15:31 Tue 27 Dec 11 (GMT)  [Link]  
This would then leave room for Downing and Kuyt to come in and support the striker leaving us at times with 3 forwards, and the added defence when needed with Johnson and Enrique dropping back.

Why did I choose Hendo? What I have seen from him is bad, HOWEVER, when he has played in the middle alongside Lucas or Gerrard he has showed some promise and actually looks the part. Probably the fear of one of those two having a go at him.

Think we need to change our captain at the minute from Pepe, don't get me wrong great candidate for the job but he can't be everywhere having a moan at the players keeping them all in check. Give it to Squirtle for when Gerrard or Carra are not there.

Gerrard needs to not let his last injury affect him mentally this is a time we really need him especially with the tough games coming up, City 3 times this month, Newcastle, then United, everton and Spuds next month, time for the man to step it up and hit the ground running.

And for anyone reading the previous post, I am not saying get Kenny out blah blah blah, just saying I think we made a mistake, I personally hope he makes up for a pretty bad start.

TRANSFERS.

Kenny made a right pigs ear so far with dodgy buys, Carroll and Adam to name the obvious. 45+ mil spent on those 2 flops, Hendo has room for improvement.

Downing starting to settle down now and you can see that on the pitch, Suarez was a fantastic buy, Bellamy on a free what a bargain.

Need something special in January!
Deleted User
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18:07 Tue 27 Dec 11 (GMT)  [Link]  
Kenny is doing fine.

We know that it is more difficult than ever for us to finish top 4.

Man City, Chelsea, Man Utd, Tottenham and Arsenal are stronger than us on the pitch in my opinion.

People go on about how much we've spent under new owners... out net spend was bigger under Hicks and Gillette during their first 2 transfer windows than it was from Fenway.

If you look at the figures, we have spent £30M (net) on players, (all of which was profit, Fenway have not dipped into their pockets yet) and cut salaries significantly.

I think we bought quite badly in the summer. Bellamy and Enrique aside, I'm not impressed. Downing, Henderson and Adam have been awful for most of the season. Add big Andy to that from 11 months ago and the problem is compounded.

£80M (the cost of Ronaldo) wasted. Kenny and Comolli need to improve on the transfer front.

On the pitch we are a completely different animal now. Our away record has gone from one of the worst under Woy to one of the best under Kenny. At home we are unbeaten, but we've only won 3 out of 9. That isn't good enough.

The table isn't reflecting our dominance in games though, we have hit the woodwork almost as many times as we have scored. 16 times I think, maybe more, goalkeepers win MOTM against us in nearly every game we drop points.

What we need to do is sign a proven goal scorer, the problem is attracting them. Most of them play for CL clubs, and we look like we're going to miss out on EL again.
Deleted User
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18:15 Tue 27 Dec 11 (GMT)  [Link]  
jack_pot said:
2good said:
jack_pot said:
Enrique, we let l'pool have, and we've replaced him with Santon who is twice as good.


had to do a double take there.

Is this the Santon who has played what 4 games for Newcastle? Don't be soft. We certainly got the best of that deal.

Santon may well become a good full back, but at the moment he is far from it.


Doesn't matter how many games he's played for us, it's clear to see that he's a much better player than Enrique. Enrique is good, but I never had that "wow" feeling when watching him play.


Well Enrique has been one of our best players in the best premier league defence so far this season. Santon has been kept out by Ryan Taylor and Danny Simpson.

Santon has been poor (again) so far this season, just like he was at Inter bar 3 months under Mourinho.

Of course it matter the amount of games played. Enrique has played every game for us this season, Santon has played 4. Hardly got your moneys worth so far.

Edited at 16:18 Tue 27/12/11 (GMT)
jack_pot
jack_pot
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18:43 Tue 27 Dec 11 (GMT)  [Link]  
@2good

Lol, that's not because he's worse than Ryan Taylor.. That's because Ryan Taylor was outstanding at the start of the season. It wouldn't have been fair to replace him when he's on the top of his game.. Every game Santon has played for us so far, he's made a huge impact on the whole squad, and has played extremely well. Why you think he's been poor this season is beyond me.

Enrique is incredibly average.
Every Newcastle supporter that I've spoken to, who have experienced both Enrique and Santon playing for us, all have said that they think Santon is a better player.
I bet if Liverpool bought Santon instead of us, you'd all be praising him as one of the best full backs in the premier league.

Incredibly biased lol. I have full respect for Liverpool, but honestly when it comes to football, you're all deluded.
Deleted User
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18:51 Tue 27 Dec 11 (GMT)  [Link]  
Deluded? Did you not read what me and Mich have wrote above? Basically laying into the side!

Trust me if Enrique was playing average I'd have said! He's been our 3rd best player behind Lucas and Suarez this season though. He is raved about in Liverpool. Don't care what the toon thought of him.

I've watched Santon and he is an underachiever. He has everything he needs to be class, but at the moment he is a kid who hasn't played enough football, and is more of a versatility man than anything else. Failed at right back, couldn't get a game there cos of Maicon, and then tried at left back and couldn't get a game there because of Chivu. The same is being repeated at Newcastle now.
jack_pot
jack_pot
Posts: 1,920
19:09 Tue 27 Dec 11 (GMT)  [Link]  
2good said:
Deluded? Did you not read what me and Mich have wrote above? Basically laying into the side!

Trust me if Enrique was playing average I'd have said! He's been our 3rd best player behind Lucas and Suarez this season though. He is raved about in Liverpool. Don't care what the toon thought of him.

I've watched Santon and he is an underachiever. He has everything he needs to be class, but at the moment he is a kid who hasn't played enough football, and is more of a versatility man than anything else. Failed at right back, couldn't get a game there cos of Maicon, and then tried at left back and couldn't get a game there because of Chivu. The same is being repeated at Newcastle now.


Lol, it's embarrassing how wrong you actually are.
mich
mich
Posts: 2,255
19:18 Tue 27 Dec 11 (GMT)  [Link]  
Don't get me wrong, Kenny has turned us around from Woy.

He has turned our away record into a great one, and we are the best defence in the league.

BUT the influence he has on the players isn't the one that is needed IMO he is more of a friend to them, now I know they need to get along but he seems far too lenient. Still baffled as to why he doesn't play Kuyt though.

Jack, You're like most other Newcastle fans, other than Shearer (who you probably hail to be the best striker to have walked the Earth) everyone who leaves Newcastle at any time be it retirement or for another club is all of a sudden just average or not really that good.

Enrique has been the best defender in the best defence in the league so far this year, Santon has been kept out by Taylor and Simpson.

If he was better than Taylor he would be starting ahead of him, maybe it's just me that thinks that. Oh and just for the record Taylor is better than Santon and you are probably saying otherwise because you know there is a good chance he will be leaving for somewhere better in January.
jack_pot
jack_pot
Posts: 1,920
19:38 Tue 27 Dec 11 (GMT)  [Link]  
mich said:

Jack, You're like most other Newcastle fans, other than Shearer (who you probably hail to be the best striker to have walked the Earth) everyone who leaves Newcastle at any time be it retirement or for another club is all of a sudden just average or not really that good.

Enrique has been the best defender in the best defence in the league so far this year, Santon has been kept out by Taylor and Simpson.

If he was better than Taylor he would be starting ahead of him, maybe it's just me that thinks that. Oh and just for the record Taylor is better than Santon and you are probably saying otherwise because you know there is a good chance he will be leaving for somewhere better in January.


Shearer was one of the best English strikers.. That's as far as that goes.
I never rated Enrique that much when he was here. Yeh he did a good job for us, but I honestly wasn't that bothered when he left, as I knew it wouldn't be hard to find a replacement...

Again, Santon has been kept out by Taylor due to him being on top form. (Feel like I'm repeating myself here)... It wouldn't be fair to Taylor who has done a lot for us in the first half of this season, to then just replace him with Santon..

Who do you think will be leaving in January? Santon or Taylor?? I very much doubt either will be leaving. If anybody is going to leave in January, it'll be Tiote, which again is doubtful for this window.
Deleted User
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19:42 Tue 27 Dec 11 (GMT)  [Link]  
jack_pot said:
2good said:
Deluded? Did you not read what me and Mich have wrote above? Basically laying into the side!

Trust me if Enrique was playing average I'd have said! He's been our 3rd best player behind Lucas and Suarez this season though. He is raved about in Liverpool. Don't care what the toon thought of him.

I've watched Santon and he is an underachiever. He has everything he needs to be class, but at the moment he is a kid who hasn't played enough football, and is more of a versatility man than anything else. Failed at right back, couldn't get a game there cos of Maicon, and then tried at left back and couldn't get a game there because of Chivu. The same is being repeated at Newcastle now.


Lol, it's embarrassing how wrong you actually are.


Mate, don't start with all that, it's annoying. Either debate or don't I'm not bothered either way, but that is exactly how his career has gone so far. Kept out of the Inter team for Maicon and Chivu. Loaned out to another Serie A side. Now kept out of right back by Danny Simpson and left back by another versatile full back in Ryan Taylor.

I'm sure given the chance he'll be good for you, but to say at this stage that Santon is "twice the player" of Enrique is bizarre to say the least.

Edited at 17:46 Tue 27/12/11 (GMT)
jack_pot
jack_pot
Posts: 1,920
20:06 Tue 27 Dec 11 (GMT)  [Link]  
Do I really need to repeat for the third time why he hasn't played much this season??

Maybe not twice the player Enrique is, but there's no doubt he is better.
Deleted User
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23:18 Tue 27 Dec 11 (GMT)  [Link]  
I already know why he isn't playing.

The fact remains that Pardew prefers playing Ryan Taylor playing out of position at left back rather than play Davide Santon in his natural role.

That alone tells you all you need to know on that score.
jack_pot
jack_pot
Posts: 1,920
01:07 Wed 28 Dec 11 (GMT)  [Link]  
2good said:
I already know why he isn't playing.

The fact remains that Pardew prefers playing Ryan Taylor playing out of position at left back rather than play Davide Santon in his natural role.

That alone tells you all you need to know on that score.


You keep saying that but that isn't the case at all. Just as Pardew plays Leon Best over Ben Arfa, when Ben Arfa is clearly the better player. They're both players who are adapting to the premier league, and need to be slowly introduced to the style of play here. That, and the fact that our main starting 11 are doing a fantastic job, so change isn't really needed yet.

The fact of the matter is, every time Santon HAS played, he's been absolutely outstanding for us, and he'll only get miles better.
Deleted User
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01:14 Wed 28 Dec 11 (GMT)  [Link]  
I seen santon on play against chelsea a few week ago and thought he looked good, But if you had to pick Enrique or santon at this moment in time it would clearly be Enrique. He won newcastle player of season last two year and is playing good for liverpool.
jack_pot
jack_pot
Posts: 1,920
01:36 Wed 28 Dec 11 (GMT)  [Link]  
Well, if Santons fit to play Fridays game, then we'll have a chance to see who makes the bigger impact.
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