You do now. You could've sent it to your captain beforehand for example. Anyone really. Me asking for default info is just a service.
But the main point is, we should not confuse effort with activity. Two very different things. When bomjaza was in a clan a few seasons ago, he was on 24/7 but NEVER made ANY effort to play games. He would win defaults 6-0 if I had to make a call about activity... it's the effort to get the game played that counts.

Send them to dgen this time please. I won't be online on Sunday probably.

Anyone is allowed to post subs. Just tell people to do it generally if they want to play a game. We're not very formal here.

Okie dokie

I never said u should judge a default on activity alone. But on the other hand u cant judge it only only on the default info that its sent to you, that may not be a true reflection Of effort made by both players

^It may not be, you're right. But there's nothing we can do about that. If the teams don't tell us anything, we can't tell if anyone's made any effort at all. So we have to assume they didn't, otherwise it's pure bias.

Pretty much exactly this happened yet again, this time even more extreme than before

Something should be considered to try and negate the effect of this. The issue is that currently there is nothing to stop games being left to the final deadline and the punishment for clans refusing to sub is too severe (in terms of default discussion).

I don't think the problem is games being left late to be played. I think the problem is clans having their hands forced due to the opponent late on in the fixture.

NA were nearly in the position yesterday where we would have had to sub out better players in order to get the game played. Us potentially sacrificing points because a sub refusal is looked down upon (so bonus points were not sacrificed) purely to get the game played entirely due to Dirty Dozen's incompetence in activity.

Thankfully things transpired where our original players managed to play. However, I have had the situation plenty of times before with Allstarz where you know you either refuse a late sub and sacrifice your bonus points or you sub anybody you can find in and lose points from that fixture.

How about having some kind of limits on game to be played versus days. For example

Day 5 - 15% of games to be completed - if done = x bonus
Day 10 - 60% of games to be completed - if done = x bonus
Day 14 - 100% of games to be completed - No bonus

The quicker games are finished then the chances of more bonus points, this could also put a little more pressure on the player and captain to make changes early during the games to try and gain a completion bonus. You can take a bigger risk and even sub better players out as the bonus points are valuable versus no activity from a player. If you look at all the games not completed until the last day these teams would have risked lots of bonus points etc.

If deadlines were reduced we would have had only two games played vs DD. Lol

Great idea!! That would be fair on clans who are active all the time, not only deadline day.

OR, people wouldve made the same amount of effort only two weeks earlier... who knows?

This was my original point that nobody seemed to agree with, a shorter deadline would give some incentive for players to make double the effort to arrange a game as soon as possible after the release of the fixture. Judging from the way the pre season friendlies went, and now how the first fixture ended up I'm inclined to agree that one week probably is just that bit much of an expectancy, however 10 days I feel would still be ideal.

7,10, or 14 days it's still that deadline day scramble for everybody to finally get moving and play their games. I know several people who don't even bother making arrangements for the entire first week because they think 'well there's still another whole week left' even though they are active throughout the entire duration. Then things go wrong and it ends up being a crazy rush on the last weekend which is hell on clan captains especially if vice captains are otherwise engaged. It's a lot of pressure.

70% of clan members do make the effort to make some kind of arrangement as soon as they are able, which are usually the ones who have to wait another 10-14 days for their next game.

With 10 members to each clan and 6 games per fixture, 4 subs is more than enough. People will continue waiting until the last minute with the longer deadline and maybe it would be equally as bad with a shorter one, but we will never know that unless it's tested for a period of time where everything has chance to fall in to place.

I doubt it. It was only yesterday that they reminded they had games to play. Even if u make an one week deadline all games from certain clans will get played on the last day. The best thing to do is to give bonus for the most active clans (crazys idea is good) and not reduce deadlines.

Activity is not worth points. Someone who comes on on the first day of a fixture, arranges a game for the 4th day and plays it then shouldnt get less points than someone who is on every day.

And with regards to corsairs post. As a captain you dont have a choice of "do I let it go to default or not". If there's a chance to play it then you take it, there is no other choice. It's a game at the end of the day, its better to lose a game 6-0 than win 4-0 on a default. If you're seriously going for deliberate defaults for tactical reasons then you really need to get a sense of perspective.

Its you who should have a sense of perspective who messaged me yesterday only to send some default info to the panel. Our clan aim is to be active and arrange games, yours is to be offline for a month and preteding others to be at your disposal when u want them to be.

Yes I wanted to make sure you were going to get as few points as possible for what I consider very bad sportsmaship. And pretending people are at our disposal? There is no pretending about it, the games got played ergo we are able to get players on when needed. And you saying our "aim is to be offline for a month" is so nonsensical it's laughable. No-one aims to be offline for that length of time, we have people with very legitimate reasons for not being on a game when they have serious problems to contend with in the real world.

Agree with Adam on the activity and defaults front but if guys can't be bothered to come online until the last day then its just luck if the game gets played.

Playing for a default in my opinion is just as bad as someone offline for 13/14 days of the fixture.

In some cases you can only do so much by yourself (messaging teammates) but if they don't come online then the captain can only sub unless they are inactive as well which is what happened last set, was just fortunate that Dozen guys came through so tons of defaults was prevented.

Better to play the game than a default.

I think we should talk about Dave's idea

It isn't playing for a default. It's not wanting to sacrifice points by subbing out better players purely to get the game completed.

At the end of the day it's a competition, each clan wants to get as many points as possible. Why should a clan who have had all the activity be forced to sub out their better players (and potentially sacrifice points) at the last minute so they get the bonus points on the default, when the reason the game hasn't been played to that point is solely at the fault of the oppositions. They know that a refusal of a sub would hinder their chances of being awarded the completion bonus and so their hands are forced.

Team lists are sent in for a reason and most try to stick to them as much as possible. However, with the current set up the above exploitation does exist

Get players on when needed? so you could have got people on when u needed them, but still decided to do it on the last day of the fixture? Thats what i call laughable, and exactly proves my point lol

Just to make myself clear, i never play for defaults. But on the other hand i will never sub someone out who has tried to play the game but failed to do so because his opponent has been offline for a month and his clan decided to make a sub only in the last day. Do you really think its right to do that?

I decided to sub out tinie cause i knew he hadnt been active either, but couldnt sub out clifton and corsair who tried to arrange their games.

Edited at 18:56 Mon 12/01/15 (GMT)